The Three Keys To Successful Relationships: Part Two

    There are three keys to successful relationships. Last week we discussed week 1, which was connection. This week we discuss the mechanism for connection.


    Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the past, helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips.

    OK, so tonight, what we here to discuss is the three keys to successful relationships. And tonight we’re going to discuss part two. So the first key is connection. So we talked about relationships being the mechanism by which we get connection with other people and connection being the way that we make sense of the world last week.

    So. We we were talking about what that all relationships flow between various types of connection to this connection, and it may be that you like you right out of connection. You’re right. Disconnected, which means that the relationship is not very enjoyable. And so the relationship probably breaks and but often there’s a flow between the two. And so what we’re looking at tonight is what is the mechanism that we can feel more connected? So just some housekeeping for me, if anyone whose in need we this call is recorded in the main room, the breakout rooms are recorded.

    We don’t use the video. So I think everyone’s got their video on, especially in the breakout rooms. If you can use your video, if it’s convenient, it just helps people see where you are and so that we can feel more connection. The philosophy to the groups we talked about, the Fink free rebellion, meaning that life is really about who philosophically we believe that life is really about us becoming ourselves without being swayed by dogma, other people’s ideas, by emotions, or I’ve been swayed by short term emotions or by ignorance.

    And so what we really hear about is to work out our own ideas of what’s right for us. OK, so in the breakout rooms, you were discussing what had preceded or what had caused you to feel connection? Does anyone want to share the experiences already, insights they had?

    OK, so so I’m sharing with Kareem and I don’t know if I heard the story, but so where if he is going left in this house, which had three three flats. And so I was out putting my bins one sort of late summer evening and somebody came onto the property. No, I wasn’t sure whether it could be somebody going to a factory or something like that. So I didn’t really pay attention. And she asked me about the basement flat because there was a sign, a tilak sign.

    And and I said, oh, I don’t know. So I just continued. And then she kept on persisting and I was just ignoring her. I just thought, you know, just answer the question and continued what I was doing. So I just had one of these things to put outside. So I had to go out again and walk round round a bit and put the bed. And she was still there. And on the third attempt, she said something.

    And instantly I found my wall just dropped that barrier I had. And I just looked at her and I suddenly was connected and with such a surreal thing, she just asked me whether she just asked me whether I practiced Reiki, which is something that I do. And I don’t know what made her say that. But then she just offered me a card. And if you really get to connect and if you’re interested in Reiki and then we had a discussion about Reiki, but it was only if only when she said something that I guess I was.

    Already connected to that that ball drops, but she was obviously still interested in that basement, that things like that, I mean, that didn’t change, but she just came out with that. So, yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah. So we talked about, like, there have been different layers of the onion. Last week we did. Yeah. And so, like, the flat downstairs is like the most superficial layer where she’d gone to something a little bit deeper and she said, well, I thought she was observing me.

    She wasn’t going away. So I was busy my head. I was just wanting to get the bins out. So it was a 10, 15 minute job I have to put out rolling it down. It was my turn. You know, we have to share that duties for a few bins so she doesn’t go away. It’s really just when she said that. So I suspect she was observing me and then said something which which didn’t make me connect with her.

    Stop and look. But my answer was not enough, it seemed. Well, obviously, contact the letting agency I was thinking of and there wasn’t enough, so but yeah, and it’s great because three months later I went to a birthday party and. Yeah. I mean, really connected. It was lovely seeing her. Yeah, so what would you so what do you think it was that you had something in common? Yes, I think yeah, there was a commonality there.

    Some think that perhaps. Yeah, that I was already connected to something that I was connected to that she’s like, for example, if she started to speak French to me, I wouldn’t say, look, because it’s, you know, my second language. And so I would. Would connect the two because it’s unusual to find a French speaker sort of, you know, just just so yeah, I would probably have the accent and then would have maybe spectrum French and then there would have been a connection, but there was none of that.

    So, yeah, finding something that is that you’re connected with but married in the other person. Perhaps starts the connection in some way. Well, it brought my ball down because I then really turn to look at her and I hadn’t before. OK.

    Thank you, guy, does anyone else have any other examples that I can relate to in that I think that I felt connected with people, the previous partners, a cell phone that showed an interest in me, that interests me. So I guess it can be on the level of connecting interest or something or digging deeper. But I think that’s that’s when I feel that someone can feel connected to a person. When so when you feel understood and you feel that they’re showing an interest, they care.

    Yeah. Concern. I think my example is, oh, my goodness, I tried to go very deep. I hope I don’t upset anybody with this one.

    My best friend, who I met my first week at university. She is. The closest thing to a sister that I have because I have no sisters and we’ve been through everything, and some years ago her husband was found to have was diagnosed with colon cancer.

    And from that, we had known each other, all of us, the three of us from university. And when he got the diagnosis, they lived together in Florida, every every doctor’s visit, everything doing the research. We all we were all doing the cancer trips with me here. But she was doing the research, whatever any new thing, any new development, doctors visits, everything. We were going through it all, all of us, the three of us.

    And he he went into remission and we thought, yes, it was OK. And then, of course, as usual, it’s always on a New Year’s Eve or New Year’s Day. You get the bad news that it’s back anyway to fastforward. He was terminal and he was going he was dying. And then he decided that he wants to go home from the hospital to die. He wanted to die at home. And I spent I don’t know how many hours together, the three of us in the room, me here, she there him down on the phone until he died.

    And. I don’t know that I can get as close as that to anybody. Again. When he went when he drew his last breath, she says he’s gone and the two of us were just there, the silence, the connection, we never had to say much. We were just there together. And. I’ve never I’ve never felt that deep connection with even my husband. Sorry, A.. Yeah, but that’s that that to me was a connection that I don’t know, that’s that’s my benchmark.

    But I, I think so many times, like you’ve apologized and we feel that we shouldn’t raise deep emotions. And really what connects us is the deep emotions. And it’s like that shared experience. I don’t think you can get a deeper connection and sharing something like that with someone. But it also it’s hard when you are when you when you look at other connections, meaningful connections, if you know what I mean. It’s kind of like, OK, yeah, it’s OK, but it’s you know, because you’ve been you’ve been all the way down there, uh.

    I think the question is, how can we? Develop those connections without tragedy, even without. How can we develop them more consciously?

    That’s really a hard question, but we had a different part to the discussion, if I may. That he joined us and we were talking about feeling connected with being a two way street and feeling valued, feeling the sense of openness in in one respect. Betty pointed out that you may have baggage that. Well, I was point out that maybe if you have baggage, sometimes that prevents you from actually being receptive and being open and really connecting with somebody else.

    And she pointed out that sometimes if somebody is willing to work with you through your issues, that that can bring about a sense of deep connection. And actually that that can be quite good. Know, I suppose the point about somebody working with you through the issues you have is that it’s a case of them being there for you. And I think your point about what Rob was just saying in response to Sandra’s story is that when you share an emotional moment when you need someone, I think that brings us to someone.

    So I think I mean, I wonder, can we make a deep connection with someone if we don’t have some sort of strategy? In other words, if we just share good times with people, where do we have the opportunity to actually know that they are there for us and that they will be there for us when the inevitable happens in life? Because we can never say that they will be there. If we don’t know that. If we haven’t tested that, I think really what really makes a bond is when there is some sort of tragedy or an opportunity for them to actually prove or show that they’ll be there.

    I think that’s true. I just like to make a point first. Now, we’ve only been here for half an hour and you’ve been in separate rooms, who feels more connected to Sandra now? After that story, because it’s sharing an experience and so I think so how do how do we know? We don’t know until we see it. And that’s the thing about. A terrible experience is that we can’t know that someone will really be there for us until we’re in it.

    Know people will always going to say, hey, I’m your friend. I’m always going to be there. I’m your partner. I’m always going to I’m always going to love you. But until you actually pay that price. No one knows, and I think it’s the it’s the emotions that come. Barry Bonds is the. Actual experience is the actual knowing that someone is there, because what what is it really when someone shares that experience, its compassion, its trust, you know, that they’re not going to have you know, that they’re and there’s something about when we have a superficial conversation, it’s just words.

    But when we have a. An experience. It’s it connects us more emotionally, it affects us more. So so the. So how can we do it consciously, so I think we can share in joy. We can. And I think I mean, this is what our this is our quest tonight is to find out how can we consciously create more connection? I think with Nicole, we had we touch this subject a little bit about it’s actually we was talking about as the kid we actually, you know, choosing the experience.

    We just do it. We are there as depressants and as adults. It’s the new experience that they seemed. Forty seven percent of our adult time, we are in our head. So we actually all the time be creating or we try to create our future or our past. So we’re not in the presence. We’re not experienced in defense. And from Sara Assunta studies, I really get it that to be dead even in the silent. It’s already in the presence just to be there, don’t need the word just to be there and expedient.

    And so many times we just think when somebody sees something, then I lose them, just Sandra’s stories, I didn’t even have to imagine. I felt it had emotion. And that’s how we get connected. I believe so. So can I say something? Yeah, sure. And so when we was talking in the break up, when we was all of a sudden when you’re on the same frequency with someone, so in this situation last been in this group, now someone just sharing that with us, we now have a piece of sound.

    Just so she said something that, you know, she went through really meant a lot to her as she shared that with us so we could have a little bit more of an understanding of Sandra’s personality and the kind of woman that she is. When we was in the breakout rooms, we was talking more about maybe the really superficial because we’re was talking about how when you felt a connection with someone, what’s happened just before that. And I was just thinking maybe back to like a past relationship that I’ve had.

    And when I felt connected to them, it’s been when we’ve maybe been laughing and we’ve just been ourselves, we’re laughing with each other because we’ve been alone so frequent saying we’re having fun. And then I realized has a big factor to do that. But I was thinking more in a romantic setting, in a relationship. Yeah, I think that that’s true, like, that’s how, you know, when people die because of the fun times that they can because and I associate that person with that sometimes.

    And like from affection and people connect from sex because it’s a shared experience, because from being affectionate from even so. So that’s. Yeah. So there’s different levels. So for me, it’s like it’s slightly different though, because I know when I’ve been in groups I struggle with big group. So we feel like really uncomfortable. And I was in this part of this one group and I was really uncomfortable. But it was when when I let my vulnerability be shown or when I was truly saying that’s when I felt the connection.

    And I don’t know if anyone’s come across Brene Brown, but if you listen to her talk on the power of vulnerability and she says it’s that that vulnerability is what drives connection. So when you let yourself be truly saying that’s when when you feel connection with people. Yeah, yeah, very true. And so if we’re looking at that point, what’s the opposite? So if we were vulnerable, we we have that connection. What creates the disconnection? I think when you’re not being true, you’re not being your true self.

    And so Brian Brown talks a lot about shame and because shame shuts us up, we don’t talk about things because we feel shame. And so we’ve got so in every moment, we’ve got a choice where we can be vulnerable and connect. Or we can not be vulnerable, the opposite, which is the response to shame and disconnect, so. OK, so sorry. Did you touch on shame? And because you mentioned Brownie Brown. Brownie Brown is that I’m hearing the same the same as a TED talk, but she’s she’s done a couple of these too.

    I remember very vividly remember when she made a distinction between shame and guilt. And that’s quite important distinction to make because she said feeling guilty is that you’ve done something wrong. While shame is to say that I am wrong, there’s something wrong with me. And I really stuck with me that distinction, because it was only once I understood shame and that in that way that it was. Help to unpack some some things I was going through at the time, but she’s absolutely correct.

    No one’s actually come across that. She’s actually amazed that TED talk was very powerful and they just wanted to just make that distinction. Thank you for that. That’s really a good distinction because. So much of our childhood, I go to school when you’ve got 30 kids in a class or five hundred kids in the school, you want to control them. And the weapon that they use is often shaped like your, you know, like a teacher or a parent stretched.

    And it’s it’s not like you’re doing this bad thing at all. You’re always like that. You’re always naughty. Why are you always being in pain? And so we grow up with all this sense of shame and so many times, like we grow up into a world that’s already going. And so we weren’t there at the start of it. And so we’re joining this world that’s already going trying to find the rules like this is like a treadmill of of the world’s moving and we want to let go.

    What am I supposed to do? What do I do here? And. So what happens is we think there’s a rule of what we should be doing, what we shouldn’t be doing, and we inherently feel like I don’t know other people, and because we we experience our world internally. But we expect other people externally, so it looks like everyone else has got it all together. And so there’s all this this shame and this so much comes out in relationships like the, you know, the Facebook relationship, the Instagram relationship, where people have to make it seem like they’re perfect, because if they if they if they showed the reality of their relationship, it’s like, why?

    Why doesn’t he love me? Why doesn’t why why is he looking at other people? All of these things mean that we don’t talk honestly and openly about relationships. And that’s really what this group started with, with just a place where you could talk openly and honestly about relationships. So yes, sir, thank you. That was always.

    Hi, guys. You hear me? Yes, we can. Oh, hello. It’s really amazing what everyone said. I’ve been absolutely blown away, especially what Sandra said. I just want to say thank you to for being just basically been in tears. I wasn’t able to speak because that was just like I thought, a very similar experience when I was listening to Saddam. He took me through my own experience together. And it was just I just want to say thank you and allow you to know what I was trying to say earlier.

    But my aim was to work with was the apple crumble connects me to see what makes the noise from bull. And even even we’ve joked now free episodes, and I think this is all that’s to blame for, oh, if if we if we have to have an apple crumble addiction recovery group, I’m blaming IRA. And because we’ve had that joke about three weeks now that there’s a level of connection. No, Brownlee’s, I’m not I’m not going there.

    If you’re going to go millionaires’ shortbread or a little hot with a bit of ice chocolate chip cookies count. I’m not really.

    I had one today. I thought to myself, oh, okay.

    Think all jokes aside, the food really does people like more than anything else. So I, I’m like the spoiler and getting all the food ready and the kids are all stuck around like with the foil. And I know it’s like it really bothers everyone, all the food cooking and all the smells and everyone helping each other. It’s like very tribal, very tribal, which I think is really missing in society at the moment. But it’s a shared purpose, I suppose.

    Yeah. And I think it’s also like an actual campfire because that’s where everyone gathered and it’s a natural gathering point. Whereas now we’ve got Facebook and we go Instagram, but that they bring their own difficulties.

    I’ve got a of occasions.

    Sorry I this I had that on Saturday, so it’s funny enough. It’s like such a back story. So. Yeah, exactly. So I had sister that also. So then I had the kids round so my kids came down from the slums and. Yeah. And they were helping me cook it because I was sort of going in and out and doing things. So they were just some stuff on the property and social experiences.

    It is true once lockdown’s over some round arrows for for apple crumble and barbecue, looking at the Jigsaw’s and they’re going to need it.

    Sandra, we’re going to need to buy drugs if you have to go through, although I think we should be in Sandra’s background. Yeah. Okay. So. So we’ve seen different examples in different shades of connection. So what is so now we’re looking at what is exactly the mechanism of connection. So separation’s. Is that Betty? Yeah, yeah, so emotion, your emotions.

    Okay, so any any other thoughts of openness you have to open up, otherwise you can’t there’s no way you can connect properly.

    Vulnerability. Love. Empathy. These are all good ones, but they weren’t the ones I thought I’d come up with. What’s the question again? I don’t think so. What is the mechanism or the language when we connect? I would have thought on one occasion communication.

    So nice to be receptive, receptive to communication. So I think communication is how we share experience. But communication isn’t the mechanism because communication is we do consciously, unconsciously, there’s nonverbal communication is visual communication, written communication, verbal communication. So for me, the mechanism and I do think it’s about emotions, but I think the mechanism of how we connect is conversation, because if we look at how we how someone if you think of the great works of art, so whether it’s a book, whether it’s film, whether it’s piece of art, music or any of these things that really move people really connect people, it’s someone who has encapsulated their experience in a song, in a book, in a story, in a film, in a piece of art that connects to the emotions.

    But conversation is the personalized version of that. So what if you can’t talk know? What about someone who hasn’t got the ability to talk? You can still converse and be with somebody that hasn’t got language or you speak a different language?

    Yes. Yeah. I mean, we speak in different languages from different cultures and different backgrounds. So I think conversation is the mechanism. But I think, like even people like Helen Keller were able to what they had to do was find a different form of communication. But where we’re from me conversation is more it’s more conscious. It’s more deliberate because. Communication is what we do anyway, and communication is we might be saying one thing, we might mean something else, and all of that’s going to come out and the verbal and nonverbal communication where is a conversation means that we’re engaged.

    It means we’re engaged in that conversation and we’re working to develop the different layers. So. But, Rob, you have to be honest in that conversation, the filters have to you have to remove the filters. Yeah. On both sides. Yeah. I mean, we can have a conversation that doesn’t connect because of because of that reason. But the the way that we can consciously connect is from conscious, open, honest conversations. A little bit disagree with that, because it’s literally what I feel.

    It’s only seven percent of the communication. It goes through the words, through the voice, the rest of the communication, it goes to the body. It’s nonverbal. So when you look at the eyes, when you look at the party language, when you look at the tone and you feel a little bit the person that’s actually give you so much back, then just a word. So, yes, I know that that research paired with Wasner, which.

    So there’s communication. Now, first of all, the research is widely misquoted. But I think what the point I’m trying to get at is that conversation is the way that we. Consciously communicate. So I think Communicare conversation is the art of communication between people. So and obviously we all have different words, and so, you know, everyone’s going to see it in their own way, but that’s that’s my the reason why I say conversation. Oikos relationship as well.

    Sorry, I don’t agree with that at all. Yeah, go for it.

    Doesn’t that kill a relationship as well? Certain conversations you have with somebody and then they reveal. What’s really going on and then that kind of relationship gone the same way, you can keep it down with good communication, the relationship at the site with good conversations, but then you can have conversations and later on down the line by the person talking a lot, you can find out more about them because they talk a lot and then you start and they might give stuff away.

    And then you realize the. Well, in my case, anyway, the communication has come to an end. Yeah, yeah, but if you didn’t have that conversation, wouldn’t the relationship end sooner or later when you found out about them anyway? Yes.

    So, you know, I didn’t know when the action of the words some people necessarily good at words and the actions of say something very different than the words. And I take notice of the actions, not the words.

    I definitely agree. And I think that’s where I think that’s really what Janice is talking about, is that when you say one thing, anybody say something else. That. That communication tells you more. I think that’s what you meant. Yes, yes.

    And some not just not just about nonverbal behavior, but about contraception, because you you said you make a distinction between conscious conversation and unconscious conversation, all about conscious actions that would give you an example. I know somebody who’s really puts their foot in there all the time. That’s the wrong thing at the wrong time. But their actions are so pure. And I take note with their actions, that really nice person, but they get the words wrong all the time, but they don’t mean that at all.

    Yes, and I think that is. So communication is the big is the big thing and communication all the time, whether you intend to or not, you’re sending out signals. Now, if you have a conversation and you’re honest and you’re earnestly engaged in that conversation. And, you know, trying to mislead anyone, you’re genuinely being honest, then your nonverbal communication is going to line up. With the with the with the words that you saying, and, yes, it’s true that we can see a lot more like words very limited.

    And I think that’s what this study was talking about, shows that. We can get a lot from from the sense of person, from a sense of someone.

    And it’s not always, like we’ve discussed here, that the difference between words can you know, we can argue about words, but we’re actually mean the same thing. I think I think to get Poissy following on from what people have shared today with Justice for All, it’s the soul connection. There’s something beyond the words and the soul. And I believe in the soul. Not everyone believes in the soul, but. You know, if words elicit a response in you, then that is part and parcel of having an effective conversation.

    I am not sure if that’s what you are getting robbed in one respect that the conversation, the words will get a response in, elicit a response in the other person. And based on that, based on that response, they will they will continue the conversation to keep that going.

    You can have a conversation where it’s just bland words, there is no connection, it is just a question, response or whatever it statement and response, but it’s not eliciting any any emotion in you. There is no it’s not enabling any connection to develop or anything in any relationship. A conversation isn’t just words. The conversation needs all the other things because you can say the right words. But if you if someone can tell if you’re genuinely engaged in the conversation.

    It’s not just the words, but it’s the whole like the mannerisms and it’s the actions and it’s all tied up with what they’ve done before and what you know of the person. So the conversation isn’t just the words, but if you look at a piece of art, we someone will paint with a paint brush. And now I don’t know anything about art that would draw or whatever. We use different tools and in the same way we use words in the best way we can.

    But it is also the non-verbal is also the the other stuff that. We get a sense of but and I think what you know from what everyone said, it’s about presence really is live and a conversation is about the presence. So so where communication can be. And again, this is a words and everyone can have their own definition, but for me, conversation is more deliberate, it’s more focused, is more personal than communication, but it’s more deliberate, the fact that you are deliberately being present or that you’re deliberately trying to communicate the message.

    In other words, if I’m being present and the person I’m having the conversation with and I’m perhaps attempting to connect with is a prison or they’re not open and receptive, then I suppose it won’t make an impact on them. So the point is that you should be present and then try and connect with someone who is also present. So we could say the mechanism then is the conversation, but the prisons. Yeah.

    Yes. I can convey that prisons with communication or with conversation. Yeah, it’s interesting.

    But also your conversation needs to be bounded. There has to be a context to it. And that to me includes awareness of what. The boundaries are with the person that you are having the conversation with. In other words, if you want to have an effective conversation with somebody, you must be aware of trigger points, negative.

    What can trigger negative responses or derail the conversation?

    Because there are some people who just don’t. They’re just not respectful of issues that you might find uncomfortable or that can derail your response to what they’re saying to you. So I think you need to be sensitive to the other person to have an effective conversation with them. Yeah, OK, so. Everyone’s kind of. Because the next topic of the break hammerings was going to be discussing bad conversations and so so this seems like a good time. So if we can focus on what are bad conversations, so we’ve got like like a presence.

    So we’ll break out. And the focus there is to think about. What you know, in times, in your personal experience in these times when you’ve had negative conversations. All conversations that didn’t connect you. What was? The block by. When you’ve had negative conversations, what? You know what has made them negative? Obviously, we talked about a lot. I think I think about conversations, the lack of context for us, which means they’re round up the other person not being president.

    I mean, we talk about that in many different forms. It could be that you are expressing something you already you’ve already and the other person has got their nose bruised in the mobile phone and listening to you. It could be that you are in need of help. It’s something I mean, it could be anything from something simple to something more enormous. You know, this is about to fall down. And the other person goes, yeah, I’m sure you’ll be fine.

    You know, just goes on to something. A more fundamental point is that all these things, I think. And I we talked about this before, emotional bank account, because withdrawals and the more withdrawals you have from your bank account, that sort of building up the profile, that that first thing is we need to invest in you as a person. They don’t talk. They don’t listen to them help you. They’re not there with you. And the connection is.

    She doesn’t even if there is an emotional attachment that’s just getting dented. Because every one of these things, I think you can compare that with the opposite. I know you’re really sort of down and the other person comes down to a cup of tea, whatever it is. And and so it’s I think it is showing interest and respect for the other person in that way and making deposits. And they’re emotional account if you don’t. And I was like I was blowing my mind with my relationships with tons of these examples.

    I think of where I was and I think it just wasn’t received. So I think I think lack of local connection just occurs because the other person is not present with you in many ways. But I think it was something that, you know. Yeah.

    And I think that gets to get to the heart of it, really. People called Cobalt and we told it sometimes it’s the communication or actually the person, what we say, it’s actually we are not good with asking as the humans. We don’t get with asking for help. Yes, quite often we just thought. But we’re not seeing what actually we looking for to had we not seen, we just want us to be at least and now we don’t think we searching for some answers.

    Why do you think that is? Because inside somebody will see this once you don’t know what you don’t know. If you can’t explain, you don’t know. And I think that’s so true because what are you stick inside want and what our great caution we want. It’s not not matching sometimes. And we think the person is blind, but actually that’s a bad label. It’s actually it’s not like just a person doesn’t have about what he want and what his soul or instinct want.

    It’s not matching. So it’s forcing something. What actually, he did not really desire for it. So, yeah, they don’t really know what they want. And so, yes, so they’re not aware, they don’t have the awareness to ask what they want.

    And do you think some of it is also we have an expectation that everyone else should understand this might be that simple reason, but also what I realized quite often we see the person. It’s like God. But actually what we do in each sex, you’d be projecting out and seeing all the person get caught on me, but actually used that to be called first. And that’s why the other person Miraldi back for you. And you think it’s the person getting called on you, but actually used to be called on the person.

    So it’s coming back to you. So bothering you and you think it’s bothering another person, but actually it’s inside of you bothering you that. So OK, so, yeah, so that is like people often, so I think people. covid in a conflict that plays out in external situations and. So I’m trying to relate what you’re saying to the specific example, so say like a couple and one’s expecting this response, they’re not getting this response and they got well, they’re not he’s not he’s not caring.

    I’m going to pull away and I’m going to pull away. And so they both pull away. It’s it’s not been clear about what we want. It’s like Nicole was describing actually. It’s much easier if he’s using the situation. Sometimes it’s asking the partner, how are you? But actually, what the person want to ask the bathmat back are what do you what? It’s my issues. But we are asking you to politely first ask the person. But actually, what other.

    It’s our self. We want to say something we want to ask about, but we’re not asking for help. How are you feeling? Oh, that’s good. Exactly. And that’s our common problem. Is the humans. How many times. Oh, how about you. How are you. Oh yeah. All right. All right. Right. And that’s not true. So is politeness and etiquette the enemy of good conversation or good communication yet because we are not watching what actually how pass something defeats the watching the information?

    What is saying? But in a process with the emotion, the only pictures, the words, so that’s why I’m see seven percent of communication that does not feed that communication, it’s not even close. When you watch how the person see the torn, it’s actually when you get a six emotions, you know, it’s like when you least and then you can smell it when you can feel the. So with all that sense, you’ve connected the person.

    So. That kind of goes back to what Carol said about presence, isn’t it? Yes. Yes, it is. It’s I think it’s the presence of I was I was going to say that if somebody if you say to someone, how are you? And you treated no different to when you bump into someone on the street. Oh, I’m sorry about that. Does it actually mean you are extremely sorry you’re going to go home and find yourself 50 times?

    No, it doesn’t mean that. I mean, it’s just I’m sorry. Just get out of my way. So it’s going to treat it that way, especially in a relationship. Then perhaps you won’t be in the relationship anyway. You can’t be one. But when you ask about the other person, you should be interested in how they really are. You don’t just say how are you? And if the other person kind of says to together more right than straight away, you know, there’s something wrong, you know what’s wrong?

    Because they say I’m so. Yes, but you are right in that. Are you listening emphatically because there’s a difference to just listening and then listening. Emphatically, listening emphatically requires you to understand the emotional status of the person as well. When they talk, things just change. And so I kind of thought I listened that way. Then I have this connection is going to start straightaway to be. And so what stops us from listening? What stops us from having the president’s.

    Not Kevin. So let’s go a little bit more than not caring, so why doesn’t someone care? Sometimes people are caught up in their own little world. We put those in front of them and they don’t even realize that they are ignoring what’s in front of them. They’re just too busy wrapped up in what I’m doing, what I suppose. There’s only so much we can catch. There’s only so much we can be present. So I think like to have a real proper conversation, a real really communicate with someone.

    It is an investment here and. When you look at people on dating sites, nobody really has conversations because all they’re looking for is the yes to what they want. This takes my boxes that yes, I’ll I’ll invest with them. And so it’s superficial.

    And people at work have they’ve got I’ve got my agenda. I’ve got this I’ve got I’ve got my concerns. My bosses is after this. I’ve got this problem with this person. So our minds are scattered. So it’s hard to be present. So I think conversation is we can only have so many. And so. So we have to, like, ever create time and space, emotional space. Or limit who we have the conversations with. Yeah.

    There is the issue of feedback tool in that conversation. Your reaction to someone is is is fed by their response and sometimes you can become quite I don’t want to use the word angry, exasperated maybe that what you’re trying to get it B, to resolve hard to understand. You feel as though you are doing 80 percent of that and the other person is passive, just taking it in and not really being actively involved. And so you feel like you’re banging your head against a wall because all of the effort is coming from you.

    You’re talking, you are explaining, you are trying to connect. And it’s like. Yeah, you can talk and whatever, and I want you to talk, but I’m not doing anything. You can’t fix anything like that. You can’t make progress that way. And so you become frustrated, angry, and that starts to come out in the conversation or in what you’re saying. So how do you get out of that vicious cycle? Because you can’t force somebody to become active and participate if they don’t want to.

    If you’ve invested with somebody, if you’ve invested a lot and you’ll just time for a rough patch, that and they’re still love that, even though they might not be listening to you and doing what you want, and it’s gone in one ear and out of the alpha doesn’t still mean that the relationship is dead.

    Some marriages go through rough patches and they come out of the. What if it’s the opposite for that? Sandra, let me up like the person talking too much so it’s feel like I’m doing 80 percent and others are not communicating. But actually what’s happening, it’s maybe BWC, the other person doesn’t get enough time to express itself or just unable to express itself, beat me example or just simply having a really tough time and unable to communicate. You need help now all the world to actually ask you to have.

    Because he thinks he’s right and I think our biggest problem is to put all this in this level so it can be just always one problem. It can be a lot of problem. And that’s how little was nicely described. It is the destruction because we think about so many things. In one seconds and our brain, it’s not functioning like that, it should not be. You can’t be the person when you’re thinking and when you’re speaking as well or you try to connect to the person.

    So really, we talked about levels of connection, didn’t we, last week? Everyone who’s here, we talked about the different levels of connection and we talked about some people will only let you connect so far. Yes. And I think that’s where pride, fear, all of these things are the barriers to the levels of connection. So when when when there’s a pride or when you when you don’t want to be vulnerable, when you don’t you feel ashamed about some things you don’t want someone to know about it.

    That is the level at which that pride is stopping you from connecting. I think the like that how you. The polite example is the level where. You don’t want to invest. It’s kind of like this, there’s these polite rituals that we go through, and if you’ve done that, then you take that box and that’s OK. But you haven’t actually had to invest anything in that. Where his connection really comes with the presence of investing your attention and energy.

    Creating boundaries about what you can discuss safely and as a result of that, certain topics become put away not to be touched and you create a safe set of I have done it. I’m talking and talking from experience. I’ve done it. I can talk about politics, Mr. Trump, et cetera, et cetera, everything. I mean, going to Mars, you name it. I talk about those are safe, but nothing to do with me or whatever that’s personal or whatever are connected with the family.

    It’s just out of out of bounds. And so you can find yourself going through on a daily basis of people on the outside and look at you and say, oh, what a lovely couple. They’re always talking and having these animated conversations. But you could be having it with John down the road as well, because these are these are personal issues that you’re talking about that don’t impact you any their intellectual conversations. And so when you have many of I do that kind of avoidance and we do all of the ritualistic things that families do, our couples do, you know, if you are into church, you go, you know, there’s church day, there is supermarket day, there is the family things and whatever.

    And so you keep going and you function and you do the you see things. Whether they really, um, but the things themselves don’t really have any personal meaning.

    Yeah, I can I can really relate to that, because, like my my experiences of growing up was that I didn’t want to connect with many people and so I realized I was very lucky. I had these automatic. And even now, like this is triggers, someone says, how are you? Yeah, I’m fine, I’m fine, thank you. How are you? And there’s all these things and you realize you realize that you’re closing down a conversation.

    And I realized that I had to these things because for me, in my whole story of growing up, you didn’t it wasn’t safe to reveal who you are. And so, like that politeness let you get the conversation without anyone ever getting in. But there’s the other side of that coin wherein people don’t really want to hear how you are. After a while, you stop telling them how you are because they’re really not interested. How are you? Oh, boy, I really had a bad day and it’s now and they’re gone.

    They don’t want to hear.

    Yeah, still a question. It’s just a statement. It’s not really a question going to be again. And it’s because I’m sorry. It’s about whether they have the willingness to invest or not. Is that law itself a communication of how much they can? Because if they invest their time or energy. That itself is communicating that they don’t actually want to have that close relationship, is it not? Or not at that time, or they don’t feel comfortable at that time because it can be I think Sarah said, you know, it’s not like one conversation doesn’t make relationship a pattern, makes a relationship.

    You know, it’s it’s the pattern of behavior may just be like someone’s tired of conversation now, or it can be like, I don’t feel comfortable. You know, it’s a social event. Let’s not have this conversation here.

    But, well, ultimately, what they’re interested in is the presence things. Yeah, I well, I think, if you like, a connection is an ocean presence human, like we have an experience of life and you can read a book and you can get someone else’s perspective and share their experience or a conversation is the way that we do not want one that you can learn someone’s feel, someone’s experience, how they perceive the world from that conversation. So is the point then that if somebody is in prison and they’re not willing to invest their energy, emotion is because they’re not able to and perhaps that they’re just not mentally able or they’re just not interested.

    When you say not mentally. What do you mean?

    You they might be mentally distracted. They might be ill. All sorts of ways of at you obliterate the best with that person to the point where you you know, they value, you know, that person so you know what they’re tied to. But it’s not like in the early stages of you feel in a relationship. But if that person is not invested and they’ve got 20 pounds to spend and spend everywhere else and then come to you and only spend in a pound with you because they’ve spent it everywhere else.

    You’re going to know that’s you, that they don’t value that investment, they don’t value that relationship with the. Unless if you give someone a long time, then you’re going to know the difference. Yeah, you can’t take one instance, but you can take a pan. You can take a pattern of and it may be that someone you’ve been in a relationship with, someone for a couple of years and they had that, and now they no longer because it’s dynamic how they feel changes, their priorities change.

    And so they might not be willing to invest anymore. People in the beginning of a relationship are quite happy to invest a lot sometimes later on, you know, like I’m not interested anymore, or they’ve reached a level of connection that they’re happier. So I think we’re really looking at. The willingness to be present, the willingness, the caring. Interest. And. Emotional energy and attention. Investment, yeah. So what’s the barrier to that? So let’s focus this now more on relationships, because what we’ve talked about in general conversation is like we covered that.

    But when you look in a long term relationship. Wolf, what stops someone wanting to invest? What stopped someone caring, stop someone being present? It doesn’t suit them any more. Can be tough and so people don’t have the skill. Maybe some people don’t even know how to do it. I know it sounds a bit silly, but they don’t know how to listen. Their mind is perhaps too busy. I’ve come across people like that who cannot cannot concentrate on what’s being said to them.

    I don’t know whether it’s some sort of condition or. Well, increasingly, we were a more attention deficit world because everything’s so quick because like even films, I think, have sped up the amount of action in the sequence of how quickly things have to happen. Like I can remember when you rent a film from blockbusters and you see it and you put the film in and it will play and you watch it. Now I watch five, 10 minutes of of some of the Netflix and I can’t let’s go to the next one.

    So I think I think generally we have less of an attention span. So I think that, yeah, I think that’s a contributing factor, but isn’t part of the attention span having to do with wanting constant titillation as well?

    We’re looking for the next fix, the next guy, the next bit of fun the next year. Yeah, I think so. What it is like to be bored. Mm hmm. That’s actually very true, Sandra. It’s what we do choosing to talk to me, because even even my generation or the new generation, how they grow up, Internet, phone, TV, B, C, laptop, whatever. Everywhere, everywhere. Something was clear in front of their eyes is the picture.

    So they don’t need to use their creative side of the brain, the only using that logic side of the brain. So in the end of day, what’s happening? We just cheesing dopamine. We all the time choosing dopamine, dopamine and what’s happening after when you go two minutes and so many people can’t even keep in silent, they can see two minutes with themselves because of the distractions. Who remembers what it’s like to lie on the grass and look up in the sky and see the shapes of the clouds.

    I could do three hours, months, you know, meditations. You know how difficult it was to reach that. That’s the key to how many times we do. They don’t know that. It’s also I remember I’m going to sound the sound like I’m playing the violin, but I remember not really having any toys and I remember being excited. I got a toy and I was about. Six or seven, and obviously, like I didn’t have this deprived childhood, I did get toys and things, but I didn’t really have, you know, where is now almost every child has got like an Xbox or an iPad.

    And they’ve got something like I mean, I think I was like 10 or 11 at Spectrum or Atari or something like that. And that was huge. Whereas now most children grow up with them. And so there’s something in the excitement of getting it. They need more and more in order to have that excitement because it becomes more and more expectation. Used the dopamine in the brain. You know, it’s that chemical what giving. You know, it’s like the adrenaline when you find danger and you know, what kind of feeling give you you choosing after.

    Again and again and again and again. Maybe that feel good enough. Well, I was thinking of something more.

    Talking about addiction, though, aren’t we? We all have addictions. We all.

    Yeah, but I mean, having addiction to cakes and chocolates doesn’t count apple or apple crumble when it works in your favor.

    Looking at our relationships to provide this stimulus and when it doesn’t, the stimulation, I mean, it doesn’t become dissatisfied.

    Is that what’s happening now? Yeah, I think there is. There’s never been as much expectation because. There’s never been as many Hollywood films, you know, Netflix and things like that, all of those things. Facebook. So I think there’s always more. Like I remember, if you think about loneliness. Right off the top of your head, which age group would you think would be the most likely? Elderly people, the oldest ones, I would say that actually I think it’s younger people now listen to this and the generation now and I think it’s kind of across the board rate, but statistically well back.

    But I remember reading this, which was probably about 20 years ago, but it was teenagers because the elderly people had the expectation that they weren’t you know, they didn’t think of a young other elderly people were coming in. So they felt that they were very young people felt like everyone was having a good time and they were the ones left out. So I think there’s like a parallel with. What is the expectation? So it’s going to start with Internet of Things nowadays, I’m not sure necessary to build treatment that is seem to be online all the time, chatting to someone or other, although arguably, are they meaningful relationships or just very superficial.

    So if you’re talking about loneliness and which comes back to what you were saying earlier on about people being addicted, there is a lot of emphasis on superficial. I’ve got 50 like sort of 200 friends or whatever it is. But actually they’re just they’re not really friends, friends. You know, if you can have one proper friend and I’m a proper friend, lucky, and it’s there’s no point in saying I’m not lonely because there are 50 people. Well, you know, you go out into the street and there are hundreds of them, so.

    So you’re having a superficial connection or you’re having a deeper connection. And that perhaps is the point. And you’re not going to have the deeper connection unless you’re investing time and effort in that relationship. And it’s not that you can’t invest time. Well, yes. I mean, you can only talk to so many people in a day, of course.

    But the thing is that I think even if you try, you will probably find that out of 100 people you talk, maybe only one of them is the one person that you can have a deeper communication with. And the other 99, you can be acquaintances to a degree, but not necessarily very good friends.

    It’s that investment in building friendships that I think has been downplayed. And in my mind, when you know, from your very small, you have your best friend, you know, who of course, is only your best friend for maybe two weeks or a month, but nonetheless that that term your best friend and the best of friends. And then you move on and you develop these various friendships throughout school that sets you up for as you grow up about what friendships are and what you value in those friendships and what you have to do to maintain them.

    And I think a lot of that has been lost in some respects in that you have, as you say, the all of these the numbers rather than the quality, the quality.

    I say one thing. I’ve got some friends that I’ve known. One of them I went to junior school with. And as she came to my second business, I’ve known her for like four years and I’ve got other friends. I’m still in contact with two best friends and friends from school as well. But the two best friends are heavily invested. They live with me. I live with them. I help them in that dorm as they helped me over the years.

    And I’ve known him all that time, but I don’t really like the when I’m picked up. But then gave a lifetime’s work and then all but I have to be very careful with these old friends, not that I don’t love them. And we’ve made investments, but I’m at the point now where I can’t really see them because of lifestyle choices, the situations, because I know if I see them on the weekends, I know what that’s going to turn into.

    And I have to say, I can’t really see these people anymore, even though I’ve invested thirty five years into the.

    You know, there comes a point when if you’ve got a work out what you want for your life at that time and if that connection’s not helpful, then you’re going to put it down or put to one side. I mean, the way I look at it is it’s just go, I suppose, but it’s almost like so so imagine you have a certain distance, your hair and the depth of the connection. So, you know, somebody at this depth and you’ve known them for 30 years and then you have somebody else, you know them at this depth and you know that for one month you’re going to have a more connected relationship with a person than the other one, even though it has been for 30 years of the shallow way than somebody who was much deeper for one month.

    I mean, to give you an example, I I made a friend through a social club to the John Dancing Club, and we have a very deep, I guess, connection. You know, they talked about a lot of things. And it’s interesting that I have a more deeper and meaningful conversation with that friend than I’ve had in or three years of marriage. What do you think the difference is then, between the one you’ve known for 30 years or so, the one you might know for a few months?

    I mean, you were running in people in general when you’ve known someone since school or long term relationship with your wife or husband. How was that? You can have a deeper connection with someone over a few hours, weeks, months. What’s the missing link? We’re just giving everybody else a chance to talk. I don’t want to dominate. I think I can kind of answer for this and not I seen the situation and I had the situation where somebody who I just met in a month’s time.

    Like five, 10 people, they able to open and share so much stories about their families and they even said after 10 minutes, I normally not open to people that easily. But what what one person actually told me, they are easier to open to somebody who they can only see once or twice in their life. Because they know they can share that so they don’t feel the person picking up the baggage. And, you know, after they can’t see anymore.

    So sometimes maybe that’s the reason, because they don’t want to be on a bull or sharp too much for one person, so they like to shove somebody else, OK?

    I think that’s really what I was alluding to. Some people you have a residence with and some people don’t. So if you’re like a long term partner or a friend that you’ve made, it’s cool. But you haven’t actually grown together. You’ve grown apart intellectually, then they don’t get you even though they’ve known you for 30 years, they don’t actually get you. They you meet someone else. You just need a few months. That person actually gets you.

    So for me, it’s not the amount of time you’ve known someone, but it’s the thing that resonates you have where you can actually connect on an intellectual level. I’ve known, heard and understood.

    And so for me, it wasn’t that I spoke to somebody that can appreciate that example that I was giving, but that’s not really a connection. That’s kind of floating something off your chest, in my opinion.

    Sorry. Sorry I didn’t ask you. Do you think she listens to you? That’s exactly right. Absolutely. And she listens. And it’s not that she agrees with everything I said, because sometimes she’ll tell me I think you’re wrong, you know, and she’ll tell me why she thinks I’m from. The point is that she listens and she is always on my side. Even when she tells me that she thinks I’m wrong, it’s with compassion. It’s that she she doesn’t want me to make a mistake.

    She’s looking out for me. She may be totally wrong doing her thing, but doesn’t really matter. The point is, she’ll tell me all she things quite openly, but she is always on my side and that’s the difference. I have a friend that.

    Yeah, so I’m the same with her and she’s got lots of issues and problems and we discuss things and sometimes she just wants to offload. Fine. I just say and just clap along if that’s what she needs. And sometimes she actually is stuck and can’t see the way through. And I will suggest things to just get her reflecting and all that. But the point is that there is that connection because there is some shared values, because some of the problems with trying to help each other and there’s a genuine intent when she says something almost superficial, that thinking anything, I am present and she knows that.

    And so because that’s also been the case for a very long time, and then she is really, really needed somebody. I mean, she was emotionally extremely way down. I was there, you know, I made the time to go and sit with her, go through things, to spend the time. I tell myself, hang on, it’s getting late. I’ve got to go. And so just made huge deposits into the emotional bank. And because that then has stayed over time.

    And that and I think what the was saying, because it happened time and again, it builds up a pattern of emotional. It gets more and more into it. And then the person and if there is a time now that I honestly can’t make it understand because I’m not the person that kind of turns up a real opportunity, I will you know, I will be there if I can be. But, you know, she’ll never expect me, for example, to put her, you know, before my kids.

    That’s understandable, just as I didn’t expect it to be for me. Uh, so, yeah, it’s repeated behavior, but being present every time and having an absolute interest in what the person is telling you, not just that they’re just understanding what they say, but trying to feel what they feel, trying to understand how they feel and describe it back to them, if you can. That then tells them that you understand everything about what they are telling you.

    And that in itself makes a huge difference.

    But there’s also there’s obviously a high level of trust in that. What you see is actually what you mean. Yeah, but and that you if I need you, I can call on you for it, and I think I will be there for you. Yeah, well so it’s mutual and. It’s part of the issue where can you find a mutual situation where in the comfort that you give to somebody is also the comfort that you receive? It may not be identical, but it is similar to the expectations.

    I really like the phrase deposit into the emotional bank account and we’ll just use them. I think it relates to what you were saying a few minutes ago about a pattern of behavior, because I think that when we can see a pattern of behavior like that, that’s when we feel supported. But you are asking the question, what would make a person not not interested, but what is the answer to that then?

    I think that’s really how we operate is on stories.

    So we operate we might call reality through stories and what this person means to us. And I think what we’re really talking about when you get to the core of someone being present, someone building positive emotional bank accounts, someone investing someone, all of these things. But it really amounts to is. In our story, they become valuable to us. And when someone doesn’t invest. Is because they don’t see us as being valuable to them, as in maybe there’s something that they’re looking to do.

    So like maybe like let’s talk about a dating relationship. Someone’s dating and they’re interested in someone and they’re going to like they’re all going to be there on the first day and they’re going to be fully present and all of this. But two weeks later. Their story now, I don’t see any future with this person. It’s too much hassle is too much, and so they withdraw.

    And they give less and less, and it’s like, oh, you can go someone because they don’t see their value to a really powerful word, valuable affiliate, you could date somebody that you think is going to be really good and then you find out that they were liability and you can’t take a chance on a. But inside of that, that’s that perception of evil is sometimes when somebody is treating you in a specific way, if you don’t see or feel them investing their time, effort or energy, the message that you receive is you are not valuable to them, then you give.

    Yes. And also the message that people take is someone doesn’t want to be married to me. Someone does want to take me on valuable. Where his value is not inherent, it’s not fixed, it’s it’s it’s continuing, what’s the word? It’s specific, it’s context. It’s specific to a certain context. A doctor is valuable when someone’s life is in danger, when when the like when a leak is flooding. The house is not valuable, but the problem is valuable in the same way you’re valuable in someone’s story.

    And because someone’s story changes and no longer, it doesn’t mean that you’re not valuable. It just means you’re not valuable in their story. And their story is not necessarily the truth. That story is how well the same thing, isn’t it, about rejecting somebody? It’s how they’re going to take it and that they going to be left feeling that way, that’s the horrible part about, you know, dumping someone. But when you say the value is in context, what you’re saying is just because they’ve rejected you doesn’t mean you’re not valuable.

    Say you’re just not valuable to them in the context of that relationship.

    Yeah, people people have terrible childhoods. And I grow up feeling that they are worthless because their parents treated badly. There’s nothing to do with them, wasn’t their value, which is their parents. But in all of these ways, we equate our value with how other people treat us and how other people treat us is to do with the stories in their head.

    If ultimately, if somebody is not treating you as if you’re very poor, then obviously you have to respect yourself and withdraw from that relationship if you don’t change.

    Yeah, but you don’t have to take with you their story, your your story. That’s the basis of think for rebellion is think to yourself, because otherwise you’re living your life by someone else’s story. Value doesn’t belong to someone else, does it?

    I was thinking more like to feed the because the lesson rather than just statistics or kind of these things, we should all the time. Did she want to teach us the lesson? If it does the lesson, the much easier. OK, that’s what I learned from it. And next she might be the other person will like it the way. How come you can act on it and might be over the time you keep friends together, but not as the relation together it can happen.

    I think the other the other side of that is, is that sometimes not everyone is as valuable to you as I don’t mean that people aren’t valuable, but there’s a time, like Sarah said, she was friends with someone for five years, but they’re still friends. Yes, she’s still there. But I couldn’t hang out with her because I know she’ll want to come back. And just I’ve learned now that that’s not really the issue with her. It’s not that I value myself and I want to be around.

    Hmm. It’s yeah. And that’s why I’m saying this, is that there are people there are like I’m not saying that you should you should discard people because they’re not valuable, but you only have so much time, energy and effort to spend with people. So you have to spend where is is the most. It’s not like where you going to get the most, but it’s where the where like if you if you’re going to spend the time with people that are going to lead you to a life where you’re not being yourself, I think we have to we have to recognize we have our own path.

    And it’s not that people aren’t valuable, but you’re saying some people aren’t necessarily not valuable to us. But I think that is the case because I think if you’re going to invest your time and your energy and whatever else, you have to be getting a return for that investment. So if you don’t consider the return that you’re going to get that matches your actual life values, then that person is valuable to you. Since you don’t want to see them, you’re not going to invest your time in them.

    Yeah, well, I mean, if they’re not not not valuable as people, but they’re not in terms of your path and where you’re going, because we can only have so many conversations. We can we can chase connection because we’ve got friends and we can stay stuck in our life path or wherever we want to go in life and not go there because of the way these friendships. But I think we have to be able to let relationships got to.

    But, Rob, isn’t it also that you should recognize what it is that a person contributes to your sense of well-being, different friendships give different things. And on that basis, you can have several friendships wherein you you have you get you get different things from those friendships. I think it’s an issue of, as you say, there just so many conversations that you can have that you need to know what it is that you what’s the extent of the number of other types of relationships that you can maintain and maintain your integrity, your sense of self and you know, and gain whatever nurturing you need from all of these relationships?

    I think some people try to maintain and have too many relationships and therefore lose the quality and tend to become exhausted by it all. And as a result of that, perfectly good relationships or friendships suffer in that. And you may find that people decided, well, this is not worth my while to hang around you anyway because you have no time, you don’t invest the effort and you are not getting anything from you. So there may come a time when you are no longer in control.

    It’s those people that you are trying to hang on to, all of them who decide it’s not worth you are not giving them what they want. So they leave you anyway. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it’s it’s not like you’re like this person is no longer any use to me. It’s the thing of like can I be myself with this person. And if you like, if you if you want to evolve yourself and you’ve decided like how I am still working, I need to be you know, I want to be more whatever.

    I want to give up alcohol. I want to improve myself or any of these things. And your connection with these friends is in this context that’s going to, you know, like like addicts has to change all their friends because otherwise they keep going out for the context that the addiction is. So it’s in that kind of context and it’s realizing that sometimes. If you stay in that relationship. And it’s holding you back, you’re going to get frustrated and so the friendship is going to go anyway, any relationship with its friendship, romantic, whatever, there has to be life for both parties.

    And so. So the criteria is really, can I be myself, is this person enabling me to be myself? When they control it like some people this time it’s people like you to be how you used to be, because that’s how they’re comfortable with or any of those things. And I think, like everyone was saying about the like five hundred Facebook friends and things like that, we have human limits. And it’s like Nicole said in the shower, that is quality over quantity that you like Dunbar’s numbers, like we can only know one hundred and fifty people, like properly.

    And then there’s like five people we can no really close. There’s 15 people we can know a little bit more extended. I think they’re genetic like hard numbers that we can only care so much. The reason people the reason is there’s more violence in more populated areas is because lack of space becomes threatened. The movie changes who we are and we can’t be friendly on the tube because where do you we don’t have enough cognitive or emotional ability. We can’t care about everyone.

    So it’s really getting clarity over who can give us the connection that we want. Who can we give the connection that we because we’re not saints, we can’t be saintly to everyone. I think the there’s lots of people like the Dalai Lama and or people put those kind of people on a pedestal. But what they’ve done is they’ve created the context where they don’t have families and children and they don’t have the stress of work. So they they’re in this place where they’re able to have that thing.

    And often, you know, like a monk that doesn’t have a family, then they don’t have a family so that they can devote themselves to be like their followers or disciples or students or whatever you call so. I think it’s understanding I think when we come from a Christian orientation, that we think there’s good and bad and we should be saintly and is recognizing what we can be. On that happy note, I’m going to have a good evening. Thank you.

    You too. Thanks for the apple crumble next week. I’ll makes them. You’re going to sit there next week with absolutely 100 percent no big background trivia.

    That’s not going to help us at all. You know, we did it.

    Well, I think it’s only fair, given your background, you’ve got some beautiful picture every week. That’s not fair.

    I’m trying to keep everybody make everybody feel happy and welcome, you know, giving up, looking at them, thinking I want to be there.

    And I. Let me find mine before you go where I go.

    I said I was jealous, so I.

    I got my get to makeup. Yeah.

    Oh. Oh yes, of course.

    We can only dream of one day, one day when we can fly again.

    Yeah, it’s with the same passports you can go to.

    Barbet doesn’t work in a remote.

    You can stay there for a year, you know, just can’t fly.

    No, you can’t. You can’t. You just have to go into quarantine for. Each time there is something I was going to say that doesn’t that doesn’t sound too difficult in a place like that. Does that mean in quarantine that if I got to stay on this page for 10 days and eight am I have a sick man? Oh, yeah, I know.

    It’s not like I feel comfortable on a beach and pop idols swinging on a hammock with what I think of the closest I’ve got to the House of Representatives of one one from the time I got by Sarah.

    OK, well thank you everyone for being here and for connecting and conversing with such openness.

    And we I think we have to close off quickly before I find this picture of this special thanks to everyone.

    OK, so next week we’ve got the last of the last week, the Fed cake. So we’ve got Conexion communication. Next week, the next one. Are you going to find your picture or. Oh, you want to. OK, so the real issue is what’s the next one?

    What’s the Fed case I’m going to to guess. Oh, God.

    So we’ve got recession connection. The gold is connection, OK? The mechanism is conversation. What’s the barrier? And so that’s for next week. OK. OK. That I have it written down so I will find it.

    OK, fair enough. OK, have a good week everybody. You say ok to like.