This episode is the last of our three keys to successful relationships.
In part one of this three part series, we talked about connection being how we created our experience and that relationships were the vehicle through which we create connection.
We talked about there being a constant flow from feeling connected to disconnected and how conversation is the mechanism through which we create connection.
In this episode we talked about what caused disconnection.
Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the past, helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. Tonight is the third part of the free keys to successful relationships, so the first key to successful relationships we talked about the whole point of. Like how we make sense of our experiences through connections and relationships are a vehicle for feeling comfortable creating that connection. Then we talked about there being a flow from connection to disconnection and conversation being the mechanism through which we create connection.
So tonight we’re talking about what breaks connection, what creates disconnection. So what struck you in your discussions in the breakout room? Anyone have any thoughts? I think we were discussing lack of interest, the other person, at least that’s one area that we don’t. But if the other person I lovely engaging with the partner that can potentially cause this connection because the trust is not being listened to or being OK. So for me, that would probably come on the respect.
Would that be an accurate reading for you? It may be I mean, it’s not so much. Well, it depends on the time respect, I guess, but it’s not so much if the other person isn’t showing interest in what you have to say or what you are doing or what’s happening in your life or what kind of they are with you as such. But they expect that they’re not putting anything into the relationship. And that’s something in a more emotional way or in a psychological way than a contributing into.
So as an engagement like being engaged, being involved. Yeah. Yeah, ok. OK, so what determines whether someone’s engaged or if they disengage, they call it more like a fixed mentality when the person doesn’t want to marry your fiance. It’s like staying in the comfort zone doesn’t want to expand it, it’s just all the time. That’s my knowledge. I’m already at the door and I don’t want to any more. So many people happening. When they finished high school, they stopped learning.
And when it’s not good, growing mindset’s, let’s put it this way.
OK, so how does that how how does that break connection? Basically over the time you will lose interest because that is nothing new. What you can learn with that, that’s nothing new. What you can do with that person, no activity all the time. The same things you will talk about, because eventually we’ll run out from the things to see just all the time. You will still complain the person actually ending up in the complain loop. So the person only see the bad habits doesn’t searching for the great opportunity for the future.
So the goal mind set this all the time to looking how you can break through the barrier barrier as long as the fix mentality is just black and white. Yes, no good, bad. Just labeling all the time and whenever you leave, but you actually don’t have a time to go to the sense you don’t need to label emotion. You don’t need to label anything in the life, just experience it, just have it just to be there. OK, so this is really talking about in general, when we talked about Mostri, about the Toblerone and that that would be like the hacker, just happier a level.
And so what you’re saying is we’ve got the growth growth mindset. There’s going to come a point at that plateau where someone is unhappy with that and that’s what’s going to be like.
So let me go back a bit, because it’s so what exactly happens when one person is at that plateau and then you said the other person gets to be more critical of them and I start to kind of complain. You basically what’s happening when the fix mentality and all the time just feel like the other person at criticise, but my mindset all the time bluntly.
So you’ve won palmitate, global mindset. It’s all the time. Want to improve all the time, want something bigger, achieve more in the future. That’s how it’s supposed to be in my perspective. If the other person just told me to just stay in the bubble doesn’t look anything. OK, so. What what what about if they’re both fixed mindset, if it’s both, it can be at the same time it can be stopped. It can have some argument.
Because it’s black and white, so I have a right no, I have a right, no, I have a right along the good old mindset. Yes, you may, OK, you have the right. But I still keep my right as well. So what is happening there? What’s the point where it’s breaking? Don’t compromise. Yeah, basically just win lose, one of them will have to win another one have to lose an end date.
I believe everybody should win. Everybody should take something from it. But that means compromise and compromise. You have to discuss you have to discuss it to and fro and you find common ground and if you can’t discuss with respect, then you’re not going to succeed. Because if you have no respect, you are going to have anger and other destructive elements coming into play in that tug of war. You become adversaries rather than companions. I would think. OK, I think you can put a case for any number of things being the cause, but what I’m looking at is what is the trigger point?
So we’ve had disrespect and.
If I were taking five minutes to to clarify respect. Yes. So I’ll tell you how I how I define it, I define respect as being about curiosity and being about interest in the person is about wanting to understand them as opposed to trying to control them or make them be what you want them to be. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Does anyone else see it differently?
But suppose sounds like you’re trying to understand this person that they. Oh, so you know who they are. And that’s why you’re curious and that’s why you want to see them for who they are and understand them. So it’s like acceptance is part of it. You accept them for who they are. Oh yes. Yes. Because the general respect for the person and that respect comes curiosity and a wanting to appreciate them as opposed to want them to match up to an expectation, especially since close the door.
Suppose it’s a closed door. You are trying to communicate with someone. As you seem to appreciate, and there is no feedback, you’re not getting, in other words, that’s. It’s a one way street, isn’t that a lack of respect from them? Yes, but also it could be that they have they don’t want to let you in either. And for me, that not wanting to let you in, that not engaging is about respect, because it’s because if you respect someone, you engage with them, you’re interested in them, and you’re you’re willing to have that engagement.
That should also be fair. Suppose suppose you feel that you have some deep, dark secret, such a good person. I mean, you know, and so you hide, you try to hide your true self. And so you don’t respond to the cues that are coming from your partner because you have this fear.
I mean, I’ve I’ve heard people say things which seem to be rooted in fear rather than, you know, not respecting another person. But they’re afraid. They’re afraid of being ridiculed or afraid of not being respected themselves. So they guess so. So there’s the question is with that. If you don’t trust someone and that’s sort of a level of respect, that it might be that there’s a basis to it. But in a relationship, do you need like that’s the point where you’re going to break connection because you’re only going to let someone in so far.
So do we always need to let someone in or because that’s always going to be a point where I let you in so far. And of course, there’s good reason for it. Some people have been horrifically in relationships and so they don’t let people in. So do we always need that? I think that point is going to be a breaking point. But that’s a philosophical question is do we always need that?
What is it you’re asking, do we always need or do we need to share everything? And that relationship from a down to date, we own our mind, it’s working like a muscle. We don’t know what is the breaking point. So at some point you will have this level where you stop because that’s your breaking point. It’s working the same the mind as the muscles. So next time you can go further, you can do it further and further.
The question, how you communicate, if you can communicate and distant beep the same person, right, you can do continue with the same person, these breaking points, if you can’t communicate it because you try to hide because you don’t respect yourself. You cannot show respect for the other person. So quite often it’s the biggest problem is the shame we feel inside. That’s a shame. Only one person knows what. It’s a shame ourselves the way how you tell the story.
It can be shame anymore if you don’t feel shame. Yeah, yeah, I think there’s nothing like shuts down communication like Shane. So you’re talking about things like laziness, and I think we touched on it in the beginning when we were talking about Janice was talking about people who are just black and white and they know what they know and they really don’t want to know anything else. And but from that, you can become very boring. And so the other party is bored.
And out of that, you can stop communicating because there is. And so you stop talking. And you may find that you’re not shared interests at all, many, many commonalities that exist between you after a while.
So so where’s the point? So you find someone boring. So differences of opinion. And so then you stop talking. But where’s the point? If we analyze that zoom West Point, that stops the connection. When you stop listening to each other and relating to each other, being open to each other, so why when when, um, why do we stop relating and stop listening when you stop feeling hurt by the other person, when you stop feeling heard and respected.
OK, and so where’s the point where we where we where we have that difference when we start blaming each other rather than taking the responsibility? They like to be a little bit more victimized and be saying, no, everything against me, the world, against me, you’re against me. So we start blaming all the others and taking responsibility. Whatever we do, how we respond, it’s our responsibility.
Or you stop reacting to the person completely ignore them.
Some people. Give up too easily, won’t work at relationships, so that’s why, you know, and gone. It was it was 10 guys over 10 days and now suddenly something maybe something’s gone wrong. Either way, you know why you was feeding onto the foreman. The boring line gone. They just lost the job. I’m not saying it has to be always extreme what they just had an argument with. Well, today, you don’t excite and you’re not funny and you can work through that.
There’s there’s just one low. And that’s just a just one argument. Might be a monologue. So you might say, well, I’m done. You know, there’s other instict, higher levels where it’s Bigelow’s is losing jobs, losing family bereavement. And some people do give up too easily. I had a point before and I couldn’t quite get an. Well, while that’s on your mind, let’s look at that. So why would someone give up like that if you were to put it down to one quality?
Well, some people, you know, some people do give into easily. Some people say we’re more of a throwaway society these days, as in life. Right. There is the temptation of a line so easily where some people I’ll tell you what we got when I got this tunnel, the women over the table, I’m just going to move on so quickly. So you two, are you talking about short term relationships? No, not necessarily, but, you know, the you know, you’ve got laptops, you’ve got mobile phones, some people do give in so easily, just up to one low one argument, one where on one going not so your personality on Gaullism.
Nine out of ten, constantly no more. And it’s not amazing. So I don’t know, I’m just going to give in and move on too quickly.
If you would put one word on why give up. What would you say? Commitment. To make it respect, it can be respected as another one word respect as well. So these commitments, some people might just go. Now, I’m not willing to commit to that. Could it be value as well as that money, which is where this is headed by just boat? Yeah, to me, it came down to they don’t see value and and or secondly, they don’t believe it will be they believe it’s going to work out, which really is they don’t believe you’re going to be of value to them, which is which I think a lot of there is a snap decision because of the nature of online dating.
Some people blame it on alcohol and drugs as well. Well, at the time we were getting old and it was full of five points longer and it was more fun opportunities.
But it also depends on what you have put into the relationship, how much you have invested into the relationship and where it is that kind of tempers, whether you just pick up the suitcase and walk through the door or you make an attempt to try to find some common ground, because if you have not invested much, then it’s very easy to say, I can’t be bothered with this.
This is just too much of a bloomin headache. I’m gone and you walk out. Whereas if you have invested and have connected with not just the person, but we all come from families and we have networks, we have domestic situations that we get, you know, connected in with and so forth. And it depends on what you have to disentangle as well. That sometimes puts a brake on a person just barging out and saying that they can’t be bothered and they will calm down and reassess the situation.
So I think it’s it depends if it’s a new relationship and you have to put down any roots, it’s easy to say plenty more fish in the sea. I’m gone. This one is too much problems.
Whereas if it’s somebody that you have children with, you have a mortgage with, you have whatever and all of those things, you are more, I think, tempted to to sit down and analyze what is going wrong and figure out if there is a way to work through it.
If not, then you go. But I think there is another step in that that scenario. Doesn’t that relate to values as well? Because if somebody says I don’t want to leave because I value my children, that’s why they stay home, because I value plenty of people that still walk away even though they have kids, because apparently they don’t value their children. Exactly.
So it’s you know, it’s because sometimes people walk away from their children. And if you know the details, then you probably can understand. Maybe not, you know.
But I think also one more usually happening. That’s especially in the bedroom, because they are not able to open for each other about their imaginations, what they want. So because they are unable to open, sometimes they are searching out. And that’s why he’s speaking out, because they’re also a little bit afraid what the other person will see. If I like this, what if I like that? You know, quite often women especially have more imagination or decide, but ministers were happy and afraid.
They get just because of the social things, whatever, and they afraid the partner will not accept that, which I think it’s bullshit because if you are open to each other, you will accept whatever just the least. And it sort of doesn’t. Good. So what does she was saying earlier about sort of throwaway society and how people connecting through the Internet, and I think that if you meet somebody through a group or through work or just through your general life or less quick to treat people in a throwaway manner because you have to face them again.
And therefore those I would describe that as having more care, love and respect and value for an individual rather than block delete more.
Yeah, there’s a level of it can affect your social status, like your reputation among your network if if you’re seen to act badly, whereas online you’ve got no connection. No one’s going to know. Yeah, I think that’s true. And I think, yes, we could look at what breaks connection and there’s a whole lot of factors. And I think shame is a big one. I think disrespect. I think the growth and fixed mindset is a real issue, and I think we take responsibility.
But for me, the breaking point is conflict is where we have that difference of opinion. And because I think all of those things feed into I think shame stops us talking openly about our differences of opinion and which relates to what Janice said, like particularly when you look at the main things that people argue, it’s money, sex, children like social family, social things, household chores. And so like that is the whole patriarchy change the treatment and where it’s like the whole Christian dogma where you can’t really talk about sex openly.
Money equally has like the slightest thing of keep up with the Joneses. And I’m going to tell people when you’re in debt and all these things. So there’s levels of shame in there. And of course, when you have children, you like it. It’s difficult to walk away from children. And sometimes we don’t know the full story, but there’s a judgment that’s going to happen to us anyway.
So really, conflict is about so stellar. I know you dropped out, but so we say in a conflict that it could be any one of a number of issues. But conflict is real, really the point of difference. Now, I think we can have differences, but when we were able to communicate about them and we were able to be open about them and we’re respectful and we like we’re working together and growing together and we take responsibility for those differences, then it becomes a point where you can grow and develop and deepen the bond.
But the problem comes when we have those points of differences and we don’t talk about them or we don’t confront them. And often people are willing to be open. And so you get this passive aggressive thing of you should know and no one really saying what they really the real issue is there’s this sense of we feel the shame or we feel where we don’t want to. We get defensive and don’t really want to discuss it or we become critical in trying to control the other person.
And so that conflict conflict makes us more and more entrenched. And so it breaks the communication. And with that, when once we break the communication, then we start mind reading, we start judging the other person and we start to see them as the enemy. And that’s where the disconnection comes in. So I think it’d be worth yeah. And then there’s this pride and ego and all of those things that then become difficult and like, okay, so let’s have a quick poll in the room of who is comfortable with conflict.
No. So most people think about 50 50, so wouldn’t be so comfortable with conflict, remain comfortable and you can handle it, or to remain like a group photo in the kids. Yes, I’m facing it regardless, isn’t it?
Yes. You know, that’s an issue and it needs to be dealt with and I want to be OK. So I feel safe and comfortable with tackling difficult conversations.
Yes, that is my job. Unfortunately, adult I have to do so. I’ll be The Daily Beast practicing. When you’re working as the manager for 20 years, you just get used to it. Is there a difference between dealing with conflict professionally and personally? There is. It was before, if you take it too personally, but you don’t need to take it personally. Nothing coach you in the life. It’s, you know, do you lose your finger?
Somebody died from that conflict? Not really. How do you define conflict in a relationship? When people disagree. Well, Indians, well, I think you’re always going to have differences of opinion, but if you’re able to talk about it openly. And you’re able to be positive and constructive about it, then that can be a bonding moment where you deepen your understanding and awareness of each other. But if you don’t talk about it honestly and if you are more defensive and less respectful, then it becomes a conflict, I think.
I don’t know if anyone else got any use. Because when somebody’s just too much a budget for their opinion, when you’ve got a budget for anything in the life that’s including your body. You just saw defensive after like for your daughter. Well, when you get attached for anything, physical things, you will actually try to defend it, whatever you need to let that go away a bit.
And police and others and see, I understand your opinion whether that’s mine, but I see this is a skill and a really fine balance, because if you’re with somebody who’s constantly critical, oh, we didn’t put salt on the potatoes or the washing up or something along those lines and you don’t speak about it, then obviously it’s sort of internally grind’s. But if you do and you’re in a relationship with somebody who’s constantly nagging you or finds fault in everything you do, then yes.
So it’s hard to know what to express a person anyway, what to express and what not to express, to be nice, to be around also openly honest. So if you don’t express it. Is it going to impact negative negatively? It depends if it keeps building and what will if you don’t express it? It seems so, and if if you express it and they’re respectful, then perhaps you will change the pattern of behavior, do you think?
It could possibly. Yeah, I think if it’s all done in a respectful way and if it doesn’t, disconnection, disharmony.
So if someone to my mind if someone’s being critical. Are you going to want to stay in that relationship, like if you if you see, I think you can bring up and if you have a person open to it and you are able to be honest and talk about how it feels, then there’s a potential for it to change. But if it doesn’t, I think what you were saying is if it doesn’t and you keep bringing it up, it just brings more and more conflict.
I think what just popped up for me is delivery. So if that sat in the living room watching TV and you shout through X, Y, Z hasn’t been done, that’s going to antagonize if you’re having a meal and holding hands and saying, you know what, it would mean so much to me, you’d actually take the role of what I want to put it in something so that the delivery counts. I think for a lot of it.
And some of it is I think there’s a level of connection that a relationship falls to. And because if someone. No, if you tell someone how you feel and they don’t change like you, they’re constantly being critical, then you can’t have any more connection because then they’re not. There’s a lack of respect. I would say, okay, so so we’re going to get some breakout rooms now and why we need to do I’m going to give you a minute.
OK, I see that, but I’m going to give you a minute to think about this before we go to the breakout rooms, and so if you look over your past relationships. Which had the most conflict and was there a recurring theme? Well, dear. In order to reach right, sorry, translation or reach a disconnection since I didn’t get it, what you mean like like in all of your past relationships is to there’s probably two questions in all of your past relationships, which are the relationships I had the most conflict.
And then the second part is their fame. So I got the angle. Is there a theme to that? That particular relationship and maybe is there a theme to the other relationships, conflict in the other relationships? First engagement, I confess, people have been engaged twice, married once, first engagement, the conflict was that I wanted to go back to Jamaica to do my to be my career, and he wanted to stay in Florida. And we the only conflict was at the very end where that came up.
He asked for his ring and I gave it back to him.
We didn’t quarrel. There was no build up of tension over weeks and stuff. So, um, and even in my marriage is the same. We don’t have fights, quarrels, but we tend to just make statements and it hurts sometimes. So it doesn’t linger, it doesn’t linger on this point, it’s so, you know, I don’t know.
So are you resolving the conflict? Well, it’s resolved in it’s resolved in a way that’s not necessarily a solution or maybe a solution for one party, but not necessarily for both, and that that has been part of the issue, because sometimes when it is a serious matter and it’s been discussed, one party will just close the doors completely and vote bulletin lock with the key. So there is no further discussion, but there is no it’s not like daggers drawn or anything of that sort and inevitable.
But inevitably what happens is that I seek to resolve the issue because it’s to me, it’s about my well-being. It’s not been it’s not really been discussed enough to understand each other’s views and deepen the trust. Somebody has to draw the line and inevitably, it’s me. OK, so and how does that then feel? Other sometimes, depending on the issue, you feel as though you’ve failed.
Um, yeah, you feel that, OK, you’ve lost this one, it’s but then. And then you go through a period of, OK, what can you do is there and I’ve done it in the past where I’ve tried to have a discussion. It doesn’t go any further. It may start as a discussion, but you don’t get any further. It’s like there’s a block and it stops there again. And inevitably, I will say, OK, there comes a point when I cannot spend much time or any more energy on this, so I’m gone.
And when I do that, it’s at the point where I accept whatever is going to happen and I have no regrets. I make sure that I have come to that position. So I don’t make any decisions that I make right now. So it comes to like the block is where they’re not willing to discuss it, not willing to be honest about it, openly discuss the reason. Is that to say about enough?
I discuss that right now, but I know what you know, I give up I that some of the issues were, I think, very deep, deep seated, deep rooted issues which go back to childhood and family situation and to resolve the issue would take them to a very painful place. And I get that. But as a result of that, there is an inability to articulate anything. And, you know, remotely related to that situation, so you never get a feeling of, OK, I understand how deeply hurtful this thing may be for the other person or understand exactly why they have done what they have done.
You can guess at it. And you think about it, so you have an understanding, but they they want validated. And that’s a problem because you are the one guest in and thinking and trying to figure out why it is and give a rational meaning to their behavior, whereas they are not. And even if you try to suggest certain things or say is could it be because of this, did that affect you, that kind of thing, your father’s past affairs and whatever, and treatment and family thing, whatever, you don’t get any response at all.
So there comes a point when you can’t where you can’t go any further. And I think that that sort of comes into, well, sort of Janissaries talking about the fix versus the growth mindset, someone feels they can’t be changed. And so they feel it’s just going to be too painful to to discuss it or even trying to own up to the behavior.
Even if you are related to something else, to to something in your past or something, you know, beat a stereotypical male type of behavior or something. But just to analyze it to even that point, to say, oh, yeah, OK, maybe I did this because of, you know, and it’s so and so none of that. Not trying to take ownership.
Yeah. Ever happens with any of you. Like, you’ll have one of the most beautiful things in your life. That’s what it’s in the sky. However, for the other person, because it’s had something really bad in their past, it’s actually a diverse Canario. So let’s see example. I love to play chess with my grandfather. I love it. It was the most beautiful for me, for ever, for the person was coming up like a game.
And she used to be with that boy, but that boy, all this dickhead, the last, not as the first. So she felt pretty dumb. So she’s actually angry and again, so whenever is the game coming up, it’s actually for her it’s a pain, whatever for the other person, it’s actually a beautifuls. It’s just immediate action happening. But I learned to ask after you might can do it in the moment, just following the check back, what actually took you on that and go deeper on it?
So that brings me perfectly there’s something that I wanted to share about that, where a conflict has different levels. And so what you’ve done is you’ve come from the level of content up to the level of what’s that about the concept.
So I’m just going to share my screen if you just check this on so screen. And Kate. It’s not share my situation with Sharon at the moment, but, yes, so so we argue at the level of content we argue about, someone’s done something, something’s happening. And so we find out something.
But that’s really about some concept. Like what? What topic is it really about? Like the key ones are money, sex, children, sharing out chores, work and social life. And then it’s more and then that concept fits into a context. And what does it mean to us? Like what? What about that matters so we can argue about money and someone’s arguing that they want to like one person spends say someone goes out and they and they buy something expensive and then the other person comes in and they have a fear them.
And I have this big fight and they might just some couples just stay at that level. And I said I was I’m unreasonable. But I think what Janice is is saying is if you go above that, what is it really about? It’s about money. And in the context is what does money mean to me and to one person they need to save because they need to feel secure, because maybe in the past their family didn’t have money and they had a you know, they had to move from here to there.
They were evicted and all of these type of things. So so, yeah, it can be a trigger to for past experience. But to someone else, money is a way that you show love or money is a way that you enjoy the moment. And money is more about making the most of the now. And so it’s a basic conflict in our values of money. And most arguments are really about we somewhere along the spectrum of money, from saving to enjoying the now like saving for security to enjoying the now and so and all of these things.
That’s different spectrums. So every couple is going to have problems of somewhere where they have a difference. And if they only argue at the level of content, they’re never going to understand what it really means to them. But it’s the willingness to open up and to engage with the other person. And this is where the respect comes in of understanding what that really means. What that really means to the person and what that means is that you have a deeper understanding of what makes up that person.
So when we talk about connection, it’s about different layers of the onion and the level of connection that you’re going to have is the willingness that you have to shed the different layers of understanding someone else’s layers and disclosing yours.
I’m not able to to sum exactly my sharing screen, but so really, I think there’s two dimensions that are really key for us in dealing with conflict. And I think if you think of a quadrant, we’ve got honesty at the top and honesty between from a spectrum, from honest to deceitful. And it’s not necessarily intentionally deceitful, but it’s an unwillingness to share who you are, which means that you it can be from shame and some of these reasons and because you’re unwilling to share, you’re not telling the truth.
So it’s not necessarily consciously disagreeing. And I think there’s another spectrum from respectful, from wanting to understand and appreciate who someone is to being critical of who someone is. And so I think there’s four different types of. Styles of how we deal with conflict in relationships. So there are just so absurd because that isn’t the whole point of a relationship sharing sharing. Well, I understand that some things come with consequences or they may have reactions of an individual might want to avoid.
But the point is, is that you want somebody to love you for who you are, not for. I don’t really sit right with more.
Yeah, I totally agree. I think the problem is, which comes into a lot of things, it comes into a lot of the things that China’s rise in shame, as in the lack of growth mindset of who some and someone might be talked about responsibility and talked about engagement and all of those things.
Engagement is really about a willingness and an interest in wanting to develop that connection and. And all of that comes from the belief that you can and seeing that there is value in that and so many people, I think, just.
They won’t if most people really analyze their approach to relationships, they understand that really what they want is which plays into the whole fairy tale framework, that what someone what most people really want is they want Prince Charming or Princess Charming to dash in. To see something special in them that no one else sees and then to transform their life and solve all their problems so that they don’t have to face them themselves. But what it really takes to have that level of connection is your willingness to share, to be vulnerable, to open up and to engage.
And yet there’s so much fear around being vulnerable. There’s so much fear around letting someone in, of being honest about who you are. That people stop back and so they don’t get the relationship that they want because they’re not willing to show up as who they genuinely are. And a lot of that comes from school and parents and feeling like your big brother was was better than you and your sister was loved more than you. And all of those things that we all like, wounds that we’ve never healed and worked for.
I don’t think that’s really like that at all, because recently I went through about this. I wasn’t really able to talk about my deep feelings and the reason behind because I didn’t know it’s actually something blocking me would exist. And in order when somebody was hurt me, I went back a little bit. I stepped back. I spent a couple of days to heal myself, to let it go to my emotions, get back to the right level. And after I was able to open to the person again and I said, OK, this is always and now I can share you.
But that’s coming from my caution mind. I actually can communicate this. Sulston we are not able to communicate this. I think that was saying this really nicely. You think about all others thinking about you. Salt Lake City, you create the imagination in imagination, imaginations, and you’ll follow up after. I’m sorry to say you can see that, but because you’re actually making light foolish, because you think what that a person want to think about with your teeth, that’s not going to work.
I thought Rob was leading towards before, which I’m sure is quite a common theme or touched on that area was you know, you’re asking someone it’s going like Knight in shining armor type thing is what way you related. And, you know, my dad comes into a relationship and you’ve been insecure in the past. So are you expecting to come into relationship and solve your insecurities where really you need to solve them insecurities, if that’s one of your weaknesses?
Offals. You need to solve that before you take it into ex relationship, and that ruins the next relationship as well. Sometimes you need to look at yourself and solve some of yourself and not expect someone else to commit to the relationship and solve them for you.
Let me add one thing. For these days I’ve been tilak that a slut, but because this is a relationship problem, you need to be in a relationship in order to get here. Otherwise this situation will not come up. So you can get here because it’s only get triggered when you are in the situation. You don’t even know it’s existing this problem until it’s something not triggering you. It’s the only situation what makes a difference after the way how you communicate?
Look, I need some time now and you go for your gift, but you have got to recognize your own insecurities before you can deal with them.
And if you are not honest enough to look at yourself and see and understand that these are issues that need attention, then you will always put your. Put, put up, put, put, put it on somebody else to try to create, as Daisy said, the white knight in shining armor coming to rescue you who are responsible for risking your own self. I was going to say, Rob, I mean, how deep, how common and how often is the rescue syndrome and is it something that’s sort of widely documented as a subconscious mood?
And I don’t know, I’ve I’ve not seen I’ve not really seen any research on that for me, like not in a research context, but based on experience and pattern recognition. I see that most people. Come in, we’ve like the idea of the fairy tale model of that there’s one out there. And when you meet this one, everything’s going to magically work and love is going to solve all problems. So I think that is is like the core and people will say, look, I don’t understand.
Love’s not a fairy story, but I think if you if you examine what the problems are and you look at the beliefs underpinning that, it does relate back to that. I think we have two fences to keep fences. We if you look at with money, people believe in the lottery. If I win the lottery, all my problems will be solved with money. I’ll always be secure where actually research shows that that doesn’t work, because even when people win the lottery, what they don’t realize is then you have to manage lots of money so you have more worries.
And then you also have to manage the social implications of. Friendships like you expected to pay for everyone. In which case you showing off or you don’t pay for things and you were tightwad. And so it’s not recognized and you still have the same problems, but it’s still about money. So. And in relationships, it’s only the one. And it’s like if you just listen to common, the language that people use, it shows you what they’re thinking.
They talk about Prince Charming, they’ll talk about finding the one they’ll talk about, oh, love will find you. Love could be just around the corner. All of these things which imply it’s down to fight, whereas when you really look at a relationship is about really like finding a relationship is about your readiness times by your activity. Because however many conversations, however many messages and chats and dates that you have and your level of readiness to meet that person.
And so it’s really about thresholds, if that answers your question. I think so.
I think I can see something in that on the questions that we talk about and how subconsciously we would do something like that. It does make sense. I guess what just sort of stood out to me there as well as the perhaps we all find the love we seek outside inside. First of just not sickening to say. And then when you connect with someone, there is that need or that void or that desire, that’s just this person’s interest. And then things like compatibility values and the other things that we’ve spoken about, will they allow that?
That would be a good place to start making.
I think what underpins that need for the relationship is the anxiety that you’re never going to have. So I think what we really have is we have free coffees. We have a affair. So imagine that like someone gets called in for redundancy, their fear isn’t, I’m going to lose my job. It goes from I’m going to lose my job, too. I’m not going to be able to survive. I’m going to be destitute. I’m going to be homeless.
I’m not going to have to feed my kids. So we catastrophizing. And in the same way we break up from a relationship, it becomes I’m never going to work at relationships. No one’s going to love me as much. I’m going to end up on my own. No one will love me. I’ll die and no one will know I live there. And in the third one is, if those two are OK, then it becomes like, did my life matter?
Did anything I do make a difference? And so there’s meaning. So. It’s the nature that we turn, we make every fear in our head, which is kind of like Janice was saying, like we make up stories about other people, but in our head, we make up stories about. What’s going to happen so it goes to the end like the biggest fear and it’s the biggest fear because we never really addressed how logical that is. And so we become emotionally hijacked and that’s what happens in conflict.
Because if we have those underlying anxieties, the conflict then says you’re not lovable, you’re not good enough, they’re going to leave you, you’re going to be on your own. And so the emotion ratchets, ratchets up. And so we argue every small thing at a level that’s unwarranted to what the actual details of the argument are about. So this leads to really Howard Markel talks about in relationships, all couples are really arguing about three things. And this is based on your childhood of like how you’re made up of what you’re looking for.
And he says that we’re even arguing for power and control. We’re arguing for care and closeness. All respect and recognition. So I think that’s a good point for reflection, so we’ll go back to the breakout rooms briefly and what I’d like you to reflect on is in your relationships. Has there been a film? So I’ll give you those again. Were you arguing more about power and control, trying to be independent and I’m not going to be controlled.
I want freedom. Were you arguing about respect and recognition? I want respect. I want to be seen. I want you to know who I am. Or were you arguing for care and concern? I want to know that you care about me. I want to know that I matter to you. I want to know that you’re going to be there for me. And so there should be one of them that’s probably more key that you’re looking for, and this this plays into where that’s where Janis was talking about relationship rooms like Dr.
Mario Martinez talks about. All relationship wounds are created in relationships. So the physical wounds are shame, abandonment and betrayal and shame needs honoring betrayal needs loyalty and abandonment needs. Something like the opposite, so that because you’ve experienced her in relationship, there’s only so much you can do on your own. But in the relationship, if someone gives you the opposite behavior, you can then understand and trust in other people. And which is like in in attachment theory, which is that our wounds from childhood, because of the style of attachment that we have, we might not trust our partner because our mom didn’t act like that.
And so in our make up of how we make sense of the world, we think people aren’t trustworthy because it was our mom or dad or whoever looked after us wasn’t trustworthy. And you give those three names, three, three, three, yeah. Power and control, respect and recognition and care and concern.
OK, so I’m going to open up the breakout rooms just to reflect on your personal experiences. Were you able to like when you look back and reflect, can you see any themes or particularly look at what your motivations have been when they’ve been conflict? So when I look back, I can see my there’s be more about respect and recognition.
Are you able to look at yours and define which of those three are predominant, if you are trying to remember this second person, the robber thought two of them were one, something to do with independence, recognition or independence, with power and control, which is really about not wanting to be control, wanting to be free. Care and closeness, which is about wanting to be cared for, wanting to be like feel like someone cares and you matter to someone, and in this respect and recognition, which is wanting to be.
Recognized and respected. I have a question, what does care mean to just some people? I think care means different things to different people because some some men, for example, may think that I buy you a gift of Valentine’s Day. I buy you a gift for your birthday. I buy you a gift for Christmas. That is an expression of my caring for you, whereas the recipient might think. Not really, no. You could be doing it as a duty, especially if you buy the same set of flowers every time, you know what I mean?
You’ve told her you’ve touched on something that was was really next I wanted to say, which was really. So we’ve got conflict on these three levels. But then cutting across that, we’ve got things like different, like so what you talk about, it comes to mind like the five love languages of service words, physical touch, whatever the other ones are. So I think then you’ve got different ways of communicating. You’ve also got like the whole gender thing of different gender dynamics.
You’ve got you’ve got you’ve got the book that your words service, physical presence, a set time and physical touch. And then you’ve got when you look at gender dynamics, you’ve got the Mars and Venus and like David Didas ideas of of male and female and all of those kind of things. Then you’ve got personality with your introvert extrovert, whether your charge, your perceiver, all of those things affect the way that you’re going to communicate and differences of opinions and your different values and conditioning.
So. All of those things then determine they bring different levels to like what is care? So I would say, but really that’s about in the level of context. And I think what you’re saying is someone might see it as duty, like, you know, like get the files from the space station, that’s content that’s ticking a box of why, you know, like the minimum I have to do. But that’s not really fulfilling the concept of making you feel cared for.
So I think in in an LP, neurolinguistic programming, one of the precepts is communication is the. Understanding someone else has. Something like that. It’s one of the precepts, so Carie’s. The receiver has to have it only. Opening it up to different opinions, because I think these are matters of opinion, but from my conception, it’s. Whether you feel cared for, isn’t it? Because often the difference in caring is not that you don’t care, it’s how you show the care and so that the other person so you’re you’re communicating in the right way.
And the right level, which this goes back to communication and understanding of the person is an indication of that, because if you are, do you keep doing something that you think shows that you care? But it is the exact opposite of what the receiver and the recipient expects from you to shoot as a gesture of caring.
Yeah, it’s like the love languages. And if that if it doesn’t communicate care to them, then it’s going to be miscommunicate. Yeah. And I think with a love language, it talks about, you know, physical those things. But what I think is really key is it’s not about the content of what you do. It’s about the concept of how someone feels. So care is not about do I remember on Valentine’s Day and anniversaries, but it’s do I genuinely care?
And that’s what Sandra is. Do I have the respect of genuinely care who you are? Which goes back to what I said at the very beginning of it’s the willingness to engage. So it’s all of those things, it’s the willingness to engage, the respect to really be open to learning about the other person, which is the growth mindset, all of those factors into play. Kunihiro. Well, what about the scenario about the other person is the birthday Valentine’s Day, Christmas is a pleasant one, spontaneous gestures, you might say, you know, well, I actually feel love for you, so I’m going to get you a bunch of flowers because it’s Wednesday.
You know, there’s no reason or I will take you out somewhere because I because I like I just want to spend time with you just just because I’m I missed I missed the link that the conference is on.
And so what I’m saying is that what about the scenario where the person doesn’t seem to value those spontaneous gestures in preference to the Christmas as the the birthdays and so on, is not to say that you are not doing anything during birthdays, but they seem to count for more than the spontaneous things that you may do. Why do they count more? Yeah, because because the person I’m just giving an example from my past who said something to personal values, those specific states, far more spontaneous gestures.
So, yes. So to me, it’s about if you’re going to get to the level of the concept is you have to understand what in their make up. Means that that’s important to them, because then I think what like the five love languages and the coast put them in in the charts so we can see them. I think the love languages show the distinctions, but what I don’t think they do is I don’t think they go deep enough because what what they’ve done and I think this is the problem with personality says some things.
They group people into certain buckets and that gives you a starting point. But really, we need everyone’s individual and we need and this is what respect is like understanding what is the makeup, why so and so? What that means is so what we’ve got there is a conflict on the on the level of content. So they’re wanting I think they’re valuing Christmas and birthday presents, but not. So then that becomes the concept. What’s that about? That’s about gifts and caring.
And so that’s the difference. But what’s the context? And the context is what does that mean to that person? What has been to you? So I’m hearing from that is the impulse and I would agree with you. Like, I don’t believe in tradition and I don’t believe in rituals and customs. I think we should do what we feel. I think that has more meaning because there are people that would just take the box and they’ll send a card at a birthday, but they’re doing the minimum.
They have to do so. The difference is at the level of the concept. And there’s something like, I don’t know, but and again, that’s individual, and that’s why we have to and the ability to have that discussion and then reveal what it really means. So so that care and concern is a two way thing. It’s the person like the other the partner being willing to give that care and concern, but it’s also the person wanting the care and concern, opening up and saying what they want.
And enabling that you have to be receptive. It’s a two way thing and but here is the difficulty in that equation, in that they go to work, they have to be on the same wavelength. What do you want to give? And what I want to receive need to coincide in more ways than one, not necessarily all the time. But there has to be some commonality because the giver also wants to be appreciated by the receiver. Because if you see, if you don’t show that you are receptive and that you appreciate what that giver is given after a while, they don’t want to give because it never gives them any pleasure, because to see from the receiver doesn’t give them any pleasure.
That’s a brilliant point, because what that sort of symbolizes is what’s behind the impulsive gifts, respect, care and concern is a view that.
So is it caring concern or is it.
As I said, just wanting to be with the person and having and enjoying the moment, you know, something, and it can it can be and I’m and I’m looking back and I’m thinking it was a feeling.
It just I felt that way because I wanted to that was there wasn’t a particular event or anything. You just I’m driving home and sitting in the traffic and I suddenly start thinking, you know, your mind wanders. And then you think of her, you know what I really feel for you. You know what? I’m going to just try and get this. I’m I’m I hope it will make you happy. You know, just because I thought of you and I wanted to, it’s not because it was expensive or, you know, it might have been from Esso.
But the point isn’t that the point is that I thought of you and I wanted to get you something.
I’m thinking and I’m thinking. Like in times when I’ve done that, is it then searching for respect and recognition? On some level of every I’ve this you give respect, you give him respect to you, you gave him this. But some have said before you can you can give and you can receive. So I’m going to go and buy some a chocolate bar. Well, that’s respect because I know what you like. No, you like this particular chocolate bar.
I’ll tell you what I care about. You appreciate. And also, I appreciate trying to make you smile as happy as a chocolate you like. It’s not it’s inexpensive, but there you go. Because I want to make you happy and I want you to. Maybe on the opposite as well. I want you to appreciate what could be. That’s what I’m saying when I’m looking at a given receiver. Sometimes when you’re giving that. It’s in search of their respect and recognition, and sometimes people do something in order to get the care and concern, and so they give with with an intention to get.
Sometimes it’s subconscious and I’m not using that example. I love you, but I’m looking at my own motivations at times and it’s not like you consciously going to get this back, but there is some of that level. And so sometimes we give what we want to get to put it. That used to be a joke, really, for men saying always bought your flowers. What does he want? What’s he done? Yeah, you know what it’s like.
Let’s say some flowers, because I want to go out with the lads on Friday night or what’s he done to upset you better come and go and say it is. But I think he is picking up on the truth. And I think sometimes it’s more subtle than something you’ve done or you want, but it’s that you do want them to be happy, but you want them to be happy so that they’re happy with you. Exactly.
So sometimes it’s just a hug or a smile, but it’s a feeling of warmth and receptivity towards you. And that is the reward that you’re looking for. It’s not something necessarily tangible. You’re right. You want it to elicit something that makes you feel good. So if that’s your reward, you get a reward in return, because if the person looks at what you have done and they frown or they throw it in the bin or something, you know, it’s like, oh, what’s that?
I mean, you know, I don’t like that dogs behave in a not a nice way. Then you’re crushed. That feeling of goodwill and that warm feeling that you have to the person that you felt and you brought home, you’re expecting to get it back in, as you say, subconsciously. I mean, sometimes, you know, it might not be your fault, but I mean, you’re in a relationship, right? It’s a two way conversation.
And if you don’t put something into the relationship, as it says, it takes two to tango. You’ve got to got one person that’s not going to work with the other person around the dance floor. So you’ve found something. OK, you got flowers or chocolate or whatever it was. The other person should at least acknowledge that, you know, it’s sort of them you’re going to trouble. Similarly, they may do something for you. I don’t think it’s a manipulative or wrong that you’ve done something that the other person, of course, you are expecting some form of response back.
It’s only natural. But because both you are there as a as a couple sharing a life’s journey and you’re doing something spontaneous for whether because you sort of them. And it’s really for them to recognize that you have that feeling for them and that you still care for them. And you don’t necessarily need to sit there and go, I really love you. And always you may do that, but sometimes you do it through other ways as well. And if there isn’t that reciprocation, I suppose, and, you know, you’re through it and you get nothing.
It’s almost like men management, as Charles was saying. You know, if you manage your people only by telling them where they are wrong, you’re not going to get good results out of your people. So you need that feedback. I think the subtlety to this is, is not that you’re doing something manipulative. It’s the fact that what’s happening is what you’re doing. The response to it and why the response is not as effusive as you’d like is hidden.
That’s unknown. And so you then you give it. So, for example, if you’re in a situation now we’re human and most of us, if we give something like that and we’re not met with an official response or the response that we we feel it warrants, then we feel and we feel rejected. And what and in that, because it’s done symbolically. Stanford. Yes. If we’re not discussing those feelings, then what that does is that creates that disconnection because that then creates like a judgment of the other person.
And you feel like they’re ungrateful. They don’t care. They’re not recognizing me. And so that plays into what we’re all innately looking for from connection and then so that then becomes the conflict that creates the disconnection. Does that make sense? Yes. But the other side is, if you give me something that is it’s not expensive, it’s probably something that’s kind of obscure and probably very insignificant. But you know that it’s something that I care about that I love.
And you give me that. It tells me a lot. It tells me that when you listen, you observe me, you know, the things that trigger pleasant thoughts, memories, emotions in me. And that is a signal from you to me. You given me that, and for me, I am receiving in that little token a whole lot of things that’s much bigger than the thing that you’re giving me. And I look at you with renewed respect and I say he does care about me because.
How did he remember that, you know? There’s an ice cream in Jamaica called ice cream, I see, and it’s made with fruits, Jamaican fruits, and it’s listed as one of the number one of the top ten in the world. If you give me a top of that of yours, I tell you I’m God. So when anybody gets to see that I’m your friend and isn’t just a sympathy, does it cost a lot? It’s ice cream is going to melt.
I’m going to eat it. It’s gone. It’s not a diamond. It’s not a car. It’s nothing. But the fact that, you know, that I love this thing and you think that you can go in that long line and you can get near top of that and bring it home for me. Oh, boy, you’re in my good books. As long as I’ve got that, I’m. I’m just telling you. Have we found something that supersedes our rules, apple crumble?
No, no, it’s not. I have have an apple share a screen so we can have a plow there if you want your apple crumble. Side by side with the ice cream.
But also, I believe sometimes we just overrate the product, you know, like what I did last year when we reopen the restaurants I did for all of my time. And that’s what I learned from them in three words. And in one sense, I discovered that her personality and most of them did, they just love it. And I had to spend probably like three, four days for 17 minutes to do that, and I was even challenging myself, not using the same word for that 70 person.
It’s sometimes is just a matter how you give it. It gives so much more balance. Hmm, yeah, I don’t think it really matters what the gift is. It’s it’s like sundresses says, and it’s about showing that you really understand the makeup of the person. And you cared enough to give them something relevant or in your example, that you cared enough to work out what they were really about. How many of you just a quick poll, who has ever had something from work, from a relationship where someone is really you feel they really understood the essence of you, what you cared about and they gave you something like that.
And how did you feel about that person? I think they’ve listened. You know, if you want a quick example, you’re the you know, I like my chocolate and somebody at work found out it was my birthday and just went out to shop and bought by like three or four chocolate bars and just saying they go, thanks for all you cost to quit. To quit. I wasn’t bothered. I just I knew what clicked my switch. But I will go back, you said a few moments ago, it doesn’t always have to cost money or something along the lines a few moments ago, it doesn’t matter is that they listen to or something like that, you said.
But there are people in life. I’m not saying it’s just women, but it would turn the nose nose up going, oh, look, a ball. You watch this like it’s a temple watch. It’s not a goat cheese. Whatever it not to Brandwatch, there are still people in life who would turn the nose up. I realized, you know, it’s just it’s inexpensive, although there are some issues about you that I thought that were your call about the current prime of life.
No, just don’t you know that they still need be expensive, you know? Come on up as an overnight stay in a premier. And they’re like, no, I want to stay in, you know, a Hilton. And it’s just like, no, that’s not good enough. That’s not that’s not my standards.
Well, yeah, I think there’s certain people that are looking you know, there are certain people that have that they need the name clothes, clothing, and they need designer watches and stuff like that. And then there’s also I think there’s gender and taste issues of I don’t think I’ve ever bought anyone something like clothing or anything like that where I haven’t got it horrendously wrong. I just wouldn’t wouldn’t do that. I got no taste. I’ve got no sense of style.
I just I know I can’t like I just I just wouldn’t be able to know someone else’s stuff, so.
It can be because he’s the wrong person or it can just be like you don’t understand that they taste it, does it really boil down to taste or let’s just use the hotel example on the person who turns that nose up? Does it equate to, well, what kind of value you placing on me if you put to, say, a Holiday Inn or something, as opposed to Ritz Carlton or whatever? And does it also reflect the level of thoughtfulness of somebody who’s just picked up a pound shop, walked or actually gone and looks?
And so what I’m trying to communicate here and really jumbled way is that it’s actually I feel more the thoughtfulness or the intent behind how much effort, how much connection was made. Then the individual saying segments not good enough for it’s they might still do. But does that make any sense for them? It does, but it does. So what I understand from what you’re saying is you’re saying the full should count the OK. And I think there’s a subtlety to that in that if if you’ve bought flowers and you’ve bought them thinking if I get flowers, it’s forkful.
But then I think there’s a perception of, OK, you bought them at the garage, they were five. You were getting impetuously anyway, you know, you kind of stumbled across it. So it’s less formal. It can be. We’re going away to a hotel.
And I think sometimes there’s a perception that you’ve you’ve got a deal, you’ve got it, you saw this deal or something like that. So I think it depends on the the the gift and the meaning it has to them is the perception. Because if it seems like they like you’ve done the cheaper not necessarily the cheaper option, but the cheaper the convenient option, then it seems like you’ve got something off the shelf, something easy. I think where is the example that Sandra used was something that you have to know Sandra well enough to know what she would really value.
So if where is and that’s why I brought up the issue of the taste in clothes, like I wouldn’t touch clothing because I know the chances of me understanding a woman’s taste is like, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be able to there. And I know that whatever I got, it would be like if you got this for however they put it, does that make sense? And it would be interesting for probably women more to comment who might have a slightly different perception, because I think there is a gender difference.
Think the phrase that Cole used when he said the intention behind the gift, because I think that an example of let’s say you invite someone out and you take them to a has been pretty steep as opposed to a posh nice bottle. Well, what’s the intention behind if you’re being cheap? And that is offensive, isn’t it? It’s not flattering. But, you know, I got criticized once because I got somebody, a five pound Boge flowers for Balladur, but what I’m saying is if the intention behind it is genuine, if you can afford it is obviously somewhat cheap.
And that’s fair enough. But if you can afford somewhere more and what is cheap and that’s not attractive is a. Does the phrase it’s the thought that counts. So so what Beth is saying is what was the thought going there? But I’ve had an example was somebody offered me a day on a Tuesday morning, which was on the Monday night. So instead of him making plans in advance for the Saturday night or something, that would have been a premium that he was offering me the day after.
And he was inviting me to go to work. And I took huge offense at that. It’s not ideal. So that’s what that’s what I said when you say, what’s the intention behind it, you communicate your intentions both directions, don’t you?
I got a bunch of flowers from all over the street for my birthday from a certain young gentleman, and that told me this is not going to work. Reasonably young gentleman was very comfortably off and could have ordered flowers. He knew what I liked. He knew the kinds of flowers that I liked. It was an afterthought. There wasn’t even a ribbon. There wasn’t even a card. It was still up in the air. We literally just, OK, gather up a bunch of bush because that which is this just leaves and everything.
I’m serious. The Big Bird and kind of hi, this is for your birthday and left and then proceeded to call me from his house. Yeah. Well you know, and it was your birthday but so and so and so, so, so day after my birthday I said, you know, that this doesn’t work for me. I think it can depend on context. He was sending me a message, it’s fine, he was sending me a message by doing that.
I think you can depend on context sometimes, but it’s like I think you’re talking about on aerating as well. How much if someone is more well-off or less well-off, what they can afford to think can come into it. So I can read after that.
Yeah, he didn’t he did not care. So this was his way of showing that he did not care and he wanted it to be over, which is fine by me because I wanted it to be to. I must confess, I take your with the I uses the word effort. Could you use the word investment as well, because it’s not about what they’ve spent or what they do or don’t have what they’re willing to invest just as a basic income.
They invest something that is proportionately significant to them. Then again, they’re showing you their intent only and where they’re willing to. Yeah, well, when they’re willing to put their asset, where they’re willing to go to on particular occasions. OK, can I just have a quick show of hands from the man? In you in your only point of view. Is the difference between a supermarket, a bunch of flowers and a line delivered, ordered online, delivered bunch is there like I’m trying to look at.
Is there a value like you might pay six times as much can order online? I think I will put it is you go to the local supermarket and get a nice bunch of flowers or you go to a local florist and you have a bunch made up.
So in terms of that, maybe that’s six times the price there, but there’s still a difference in size and if you paid 30 quid from a florist, you can still get spend 30 quid on a lot more in the supermarket. I will still give a couple of examples, because one time it wasn’t me, me, me, me expert getting on. And I was due to go out on a night out, possibly the night before Valentine’s Day possibly, or even the day of Valentine’s Day.
And I gave some supermarket flowers and dropped one a window for pound, five pound, whatever. They were just. Well, I was just showing my ah, we’re not getting on these a few and they were appreciate it. But there was in other instances when I was thrown back at me, I don’t think on that occasion I can’t remember what lunch was criticizing, although well sometimes it’s not exactly a big bunch third’s quid, but you got me.
It’s just supermarket flowers bought. The other quick examples I want when what about a 40 minute forty five minute round trip on my lunch time to walk from my work to the Arndale in Manchester and purchase some gold gloves for a little ball. You cost me all five pound a walk back to work and she appreciated it because I loved them and it was an expensive five six pound. But his reaction was he loved them and yet she appreciated and said you didn’t have to do that.
But I knew he was after some gold eagles. I’d been playing that a lot. So I was like, oh, I could go and got hat on my lunch time to go and work for anything but the Christmas it was, I bought them. And because of the investment, there isn’t money, it’s time and effort and it’s very specific. So, I mean, I’m with you. Does I look like what you get when you order online?
And the price compared to like you could pay the same in a supermarket, I think you get far more. But I understand. There’s a difference in female perception. Maybe we can say, is it masculine, feminine, or does it really boil down to sentimentality? But that’s what I think accounts, for instance, for the fact that he did that, the distance and all the context around it was more powerful than the actual individual thing of value.
So it’s not the price.
It’s not the price of the movie. It is not the it is the perception.
Oh, I. I need to get some flowers.
Last resort. It’s the last, it’s, it’s an after thought. So I’m going to just pick up a bunch at the supermarket or at the petrol station on the way home because I forgot. So that’s, that’s what comes across or it’s an afterthought. It’s not the price because it could have been a very expensive bunch of flowers from the supermarket. But you did it. You did it. You just did it because you knew what you should do it.
I guess it’s the difference between thoughtfulness and melody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to do it so I’m not in the doghouse. So let me grab a bunch. Let me grab something.
So that’s just what it’s like to go for the last of that way. You don’t eat the that that civilized is a lot.
I can think of examples in my family where by actual giving cash is almost offensive compared to gifts, you know, and that was received with disdain, almost like a thank you because it had no meaning to, whereas actual gifts or some sort of thought or time, energy and effort. So but yet you still have the money. You could get whatever you want, but it had no connection to sentimentalism.
And actually, like some people, go to the effort of getting you a voucher and then you start with this voucher that you could use anywhere. And it’s like, could I just have the cash? Money means that you you haven’t received the money.
You now have to make the effort to go and purchase something. You have to go think about it, then make the purchase, etc. and then that becomes your position is what you bought. Even though the money is from the others, it’s your thing. Whereas when you have a gift and you look at it and you think of the person giving it to you, you really appreciate it. And I don’t throw away gifts, anything that somebody gives me, I keep it, but whereas if I buy it, even if I if I bought it with money from you.
I don’t make the connection with you so I can dispose of it because I went out and got it. You know, it’s not something that you give me. I can read for that very good somebody was saying, then you get the gift card or any card and when you receive from your children’s. With the throwing one, we try to keep it longer, you know, emotionally trigger you, obviously, which is thrown.
Said it’s really about what it what it means to you, isn’t it? So just quickly running free to say that, but quickly running through just a quick fire, can you think of a time when you felt that someone cared when you were shown that someone cared?
And how did you how did that like how did you know that they cared? So Sandra gave the example of the ice cream. My last relationship, I, I listen to audiobooks in bed, but the big thing was Brokers’ at Kessell for not smacking me in the face when I was obviously not related to him. So he said something about this thing that you can get. He wanted to get on as well, but it holds it in place fully.
And I wasn’t expecting him to actually get one for me. But it came around so excited saying, look what I got for you today. And he was so proud and prideful of helping me in that way. And it was actually nice because I didn’t necessarily expect him to do it, but it was just really thoughtful. Yeah. And it just it was lovely that I’d actually listened and tried to help from that situation and so connected. And so what what impact did that have on you?
You felt cared for.
Yeah. Yeah, I felt listened to, cared for and sort of I guess. And so you have more more connected. Yeah, yeah, indeed. And you think of the president as being thoughtful, as a thoughtful person, so that’s a positive that you add to the person.
I was once made the cake for me coconut. They actually made themselves. It was so lovely, that would be just not just went out to buy something they did for me. It just was so blissful, you know, it’s I just can’t describe that word, you know, that feeling what I had with the words is just, wow, taking it day like I can do it. Was just like a birthday hunter with a certain style of suits, and it was very specific to me and unexpected or uninitiated or or even I’m to.
Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s just a feeling that’s really, I think, what all of us humans want in all of our relationships, you know, where people have problems at work is because they don’t feel seeing, understood, cared for. And so it is just being seen for who we are. And showing that someone else cares, that we matter to someone. It’s also about getting well, kind of shape, but getting pleasure from giving somebody else pleasure.
You you feel pleasure, you feel happiness that you are able to elicit a good feeling and somebody else. You said that the third component is Kerryman, so it was communication, Karenin, for. What’s it meant to be free? Well, the free keys. Yeah. We were actually talking about a conflict, so it was connection, the way we build connection is free, conscious conversation and the way that we create disconnection is from conflict. OK, so it’s it’s interesting that we all have this basic desire, we all want to be good people.
We all want to care for others. We all want to give to others. We all want to be seen, we all want to be cared for and understand, and yet. There’s been so little of it for history, you know, in the context of the conflict and the wars and the hardships of people’s lives. I think all our time is the first time we’ve had things like random acts of kindness, and they’ve been propagated. People have always done random acts of kindness.
It’s always been instances of kindness. But it’s probably the first time where there’s been such a like so many books and things written on it. When you look at the amount of books have been written on war, more strategy on winning. But so let alone caring and giving and generosity and kindness. So. I think that it’s conflict. And a sensitivity to conflict. Has created that, and so we’ve been it’s easier to fight and to. Like all events in all of the levels from individual to organizational to societal, you know, like country versus country in a war or person versus person, is that we’ve been so quick to.
Jump to the conflict when really what we’re all looking for is that care and concern and connection. So underlying that is really, I think, an anxiety and unworthiness and a fear of rejection and a fear of so so when I look at conflict over history, conflict has always been about the church. It’s been religious wars. It’s been for power, for domination, for country resources. But I think we’ve reached the tipping point as a society where. We know when you look at the bigger countries.
We can’t really go in here in the U.K., we we got rich from every other country, from colonizing, from conquering and mine in Africa or India and taking on resources from those countries. But it’s not. It’s not acceptable that I don’t think the UK could invade another country and take over anymore because there’s so much news and other countries would interfere. So I think that level of power and domination. No longer really has a place, and so now it’s about political influences, about globalization of McDonald’s ization of Nike and Coca-Cola and people like that, winning the minds and controlling minds of people.
So I think there is a shift generally in our society in how we see conflict, how we deal with conflict, and increasingly I think we have that. You know, when you look at the industrial age, it was about control. Sit there at that place, produce these. And like Henry Ford had picked fights like all out battles with his workforce, whereas now people can’t do that, companies can’t do that. And so they have to have consensus.
They have to have your agreement. So there’s a general change. And relationships used to be about control. It used to be where women didn’t have any power. They had to they had to go along and they were forced in situations. We’re increasing the last 50, 60 years have been about women’s independence, has changed the whole dynamic, which means that we have to change how we do relationships. And so we have the. Where where we could exist with conflict.
I think now where it’s not about physical survival, but it’s about emotional satisfaction we’re looking for. The ability to manage that conflict. And so that we can maintain the connection because people are going to stay in a relationship where they don’t have connection, and if conflict is the breaking point, it’s because we’re not willing to be honest and because we don’t care enough to be respectful, respectful, as in being curious and understanding how someone takes on what’s going to work for them.
So the key to dealing with conflict. And maintaining connection is about paying respect and being honest and not just not lying, but about honesty and revealing who I am, because in revealing who I am tells you. Like the level that I’m willing to disclose myself, the level I’m willing to connect with you at. And so if we take so that’s relationships and then if you take it back to dating. When people die. Often it’s been about a projection.
So if you look at what people when people go searching for dating, if you look at the dating videos on YouTube or things that show up on you and your Facebook feed, it’s about this is the text you have to send. This is how you have to be an inherently in that. Is the presupposition that you’re not good enough as you are? And so you’ll start seeing the relationship from a basis of pretending to be someone else. Which means that the relationship is fundamentally flawed because you’re not being yourself and the point when you can no longer play and act, play a role and you have to be yourself is the point when someone realizes they’ve been in a relationship with someone other than you.
And so there’s an authenticity to it. Which then becomes the breaking point of the relationship. And so it all begins with having that sense of worthiness, of understanding or value, being able to express it authentically, showing who you are and having the courage, which is about the growth mindset, as Janice talked about, of being willing to grow into the person that you like the best of you and being able to express that. So that’s really the free keys to successful relationships, having that connection, being able to develop that connection by understanding each other and not shying away when you have that conflict.
So I don’t know if anyone’s got any any other thoughts before we close up, so what so what the freaky connection, not avoiding conflict and or connection conversation meaning conversation being the conduit through which we can share who we are and like consciously and conflict beyond the breaking point. Where we shy away from that connection. But there are rules of engagement that we need to learn to deal with conflict effectively, though.
Yeah, I actually I did have down the non-verbal communication, not nonvote, nonviolent communication, which is probably the best model for that, as in that they have a four part idea. I mean, it starts from the from the presupposition that someone wants to help you, someone cares, and then they start with if you start the level of observation of what I observe is and then your feelings, how I feel about that is what I need is would you be willing to or could you do that?
But I think that’s worthy of a lot of a fame in itself of a night discussion discussing that. But, yeah, definitely I think there hasn’t been enough work on. Dealing with conflict, because the way we’ve always dealt with conflict has been through force. And so it’s even being free, like in a in the old style marriage. It was like that. It was an actual military force. You know, when you if you look back maybe one hundred years, it was the threat of violence.
If you look at on a country basis, it was the violence. And I think a lot of the problem with the police is that ultimately governments are police who are enforcing governments by force. And now we’re saying we want consensus or we want agreement or we want some participation in that. And on a personal basis, it’s for free legal force. And so I’m also a mediator, and mediation is a growth area in in what can cost one hundred thousand two hundred thousand pounds to settle legally can be settled for one to three thousand pounds and through the process of mediation.
So and that is really about an agreement. And that agreement is based in on not staying attached to the outcome, but being willing to be flexible and find the point of agreement, and that’s really key to what we we need to do in relationships, is finding other things necessary compromise? Because the old thing of has been always been compromised compromise. The compromise means that no one gets what they want. And it’s about if you really understand what that what the conflict is about to that person.
And that leads them to to be open enough to reveal. Then you can resolve the conflict and it may be there are conflicts where they are breaking points and you can leave the relationship. With respect, you can relieve on a on a night like this isn’t going to work because of this. Where is otherwise, the conflict then becomes destructive and it becomes destructive to both parties as they move forward and so there’s so much hurt. That they then take in to next relationships.
So, yeah, it’s we definitely need to know more about conflict. And how to deal with it? And not take it personally and all of those things. But if you think about how they teach us in the schools and from family childhood. I’m right, you’re wrong. That’s usually the balancing test, well, basically, I’m hoping the things you don’t have a right to see your teacher, what they say to you in the school, that’s the right.
And the teacher, you don’t even have a chance to change it. So why the surprise? People have so much insecurity because they grow up. They’re not good enough. They are not the teacher. They are not these. So that simple our generation, we have to change the education in order to get new phone. It’s exactly the same dynamics. Is the bully in the playground. But when the teacher does it because of their authority, because of their position, which is exactly the same as the government does, which is about and it’s really it’s about, as David Hawkins talked about, the power versus force.
And he says, like, if you’re above the line, you have power and you don’t need to force things, but below the line is about forces, about control. And the key to relationships, I believe, is that line is that below the line relationship is where you try to change, you try to force or you try to manipulate someone. And above the line is where both parties have the freedom to be themselves.
I just touch back earlier, which I just want to live a little bit of insight on the way you talk about communication and what I was what I was wondering is that if you have a day and the talk is mostly superficial or not very meaningful, is that indicative of a subtext or could it be that actually if they really liked you, they’d be asking you, well, do you have family in your brothers and really trying to get to know who you are or is it not quite.
I again, I think it depends. And this is where, like, the respect thing is working out. Why are they doing that? Because they don’t know any different. Because they think that’s the rules of engagement. Or is it a superficial. I think most people I don’t think we really go into I had a bit last week where I was going to go into small talk, but kind of accelerated because people sort of got to where we were later, but generally like small talk.
And I don’t think many people. What is your definition of small talk, I guess, um, I think yeah, it’s impersonal, I think. Would you agree that small talk is things that you don’t really care about, but the stereotypical conversations not diving deep?
It’s I think it’s a conversation you could have with anyone. I can do it, but I can’t say I love it. I don’t think many people do like it. I mean, there are there are some people out here today, but I think most people really prefer to talking about something, something else. And I think some of that we touched on last week is some of it is because you don’t want to connect and you just automatic responses like I’m aware, I just have automatic responses.
And as I said before, I haven’t even thought that I was just having fun. And yes, some of it is that so? So if you were on a date, I for me, I think I would go deeper. And because that that’s like a dance. If you go deeper and they go with it and they want to if they don’t, then they don’t want to. And then then that’s why. And yeah, often it’s because they don’t want a connection and it can it’s not necessarily that they don’t like you.
But it can be because they don’t want to. They’re not ready to go deeper. Definitely, I had that problem. Well, as in you or in interacting with someone I don’t know, I mean, I wasn’t really open to the people. Somebody touched me literally, physically. And since that time, I felt break and post three years ago and I started opening up. So what was in that so like does anyone else could have done the same, but there’s something in the meaning they had to you that many open you up.
She looks silly. Was genuinely cared about how I feel and also. She did something what others was unable to do is get to my. So on, and she hugged me. Which leads to the. I never felt like that before. Maybe, you know, it’s the kind of touch what you felt like that the mother touching first time, the kids. That kind of touch, I felt, I don’t know if I can describe it differently. It’s just the way she was just there and hugged me.
So that made it. That made you feel safe. It made you feel accepted. It made you feel something that was missing before. For a second, yes, that’s McNee source, get us all in the same time, I should have to go immediately after. I couldn’t talk for four, three, four days. I was just shocked completely. I didn’t know what’s going on with me. The other phenomenon I’ve noticed as well with Frank, very personal communication is it can go the opposite way from chit chat to comparing stars.
Right. And then the trouble is with that is then it opens up a vulnerability and then one or either or both parties go the opposite ways because it’s so scary because they’ve exposed themselves emotionally. Yeah. So interesting thing that happens to. Yeah, yeah, I think for it, it has to be safe, and in that sense it means even when the person runs away, like the other person has to not take it personally, not chase, but just stay safe so that whatever that they say, it is safe and then they have and they may or they may not, but it gives them the opportunity to trust.
And it’s not it’s not like if it was you. It’s not about you. But it’s about their willingness, you know, like someone else could have had this experience but not taken it in that way. And it’s about the willingness to grow. And I think that’s a filtering thing for telling you the level of connection that you can have with someone. Because what it does is so I think a lot of the times when in relationships with Daisy, we want we get fixated on the Yes.
And sometimes the yes is more is worse, is more damaging, but we want to get to the honest answer, as in sometimes the worst thing is, you know, like people are so afraid of rejection, but sometimes the worst thing is to get the. Yes, because you get the wrong person. And it’s better to have the honesty if you’re going to have a break, to use that line, if you can get the quicker you can get to that.
Like, if you are open to relationships with people, you want to get in and find a level of connection as quick as you can. And rather than being two years or seven years. Like with you in kind of limbo, you want to get to the answer if you can get there in six months. But you also know what we do. We try to avoid the pain, but we forget one face. Being it’s part of the global system, you must have been in order to grow.
That’s how to see us breaking the bubble. The wall you need to have been without pain, no gain. It’s a kind of pain you need to have because you can take us the pleasure it is. And the difficulty with that is like if you if you’ve ever if you ever go to the gym or you work out at home and I have this and I’m there and I’m like, I don’t want to do it’s going to be uncomfortable. And so we instinctively have that.
We stop ourselves. And I think emotionally we do the same. Yes, it’s recognizing like it’s not that easy, it’s not what and the relationships are not about one instance, they’re about patterns and any one thing is only one data point. And it’s the data point gets you like a scatter graph, which gives you the pattern. And it’s the pattern that’s more important than the specific instance. And so someone might not be ready at that time. But if you’re steadfast in your you like, you have the confidence and to make it safe and that can give them the trust.
The two say this has to be easy. The valuable things, it should never be easy. Yeah, otherwise you will not value. Yeah, sorry, and I was just going to say that one of the things that we have come to expect is that the solutions should be around the corner. It’s not for the long haul. It’s instant or an instant, whatever. And so the effort and the time. That is required or maybe required, many of us are not willing to contemplate.
Undertaking that that exercise. Yeah, definitely, and that talks to the George Leonard’s idea of the tabloid, the obsessive and the hacker, and where we talked about mastery in relationships where and I think this is about the anxiety of relationships that people like the ups and downs in two months have they get so caught up in what’s happening now when really what we want to be looking at is like, what’s the long term goal of what’s the relationship I want?
And then what are the behaviours and the habits that I need to and the practices that I need to do day to day in order to be that person that that can have that relationship. And that is.
In a world where we’re looking for instant delivery food, the next day, delivery on Amazon and all of those things, it’s the exact opposite that the commodities, there’s a race to get them quicker and quicker. And that’s a race that the physical world can give. But the emotional because at this very time when we’ve got next day delivery, same day delivery food and all of these things. There’s more and more depression, anxiety, suicide, because the emotional things that we want.
No one can give us it’s only us that can build ourselves into the person that has the capacity for it. Because there’s no quick fix and it’s really ultimately not about other people, but about us. Because if we do the things that we have to do, the practices, the habits, we become the person that finds our people, who we’re able to be in that context, that we are able to get that connection. And most when you listen to most complaints about relationship, it’s about the situation and not being any decent men or women or no one in relationships or it’s about their partner.
If my concern is that I did this, what I’ve done, but really the key to relationships is our self. Is about how we show up, how we perceive things, how we deal with those differences, how we have those conversations. And what we really want. OK, well, thank you, everyone, for sharing and collectively putting together this jigsaw of experiences and insights. And next week, I think we’ve got the four agreements I remember.
Yeah, so we’re talking about the four agreements, which which really is a follow on from the. I know you’re not a fan, Sandra. I’m trying my best. I read it by now.
I only recently people have always talked about it hopelessly esoteric, and that’s all I can say. So I like it. I listened to it on audio book and I felt it was I felt like I agreed with it. I’ll have to look more closely at the specifics before next Monday, but it seems like it is.
Good morning, everybody. Goodnight. Dum dum wiggle wiggle room.
I did have this actually, but I got rid of it or read it so it should be I can try to read it and maybe I will come back a convert.
Let’s see, I try and finish them and you see way I’m going to read to this weekend and I’m going to ask questions that I know Rob is going to say, but no that’s not it. I don’t know it well enough now. I’d be impeccable with you. Don’t take it personally, but I’ll look at more and. Yeah, be interesting. Anyway, have a good week and thank you for being here again. A lot of people don’t see it tonight.