The Four Agreements Book Review Discussion

    The Four Agreements is a book written by Don Miguel Ruiz. In this episode we talked about the lessons we can take from it and how relevant it has been in our lives.

    Transcript

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    Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the past, helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So tonight’s meetup is on is a review of the four agreements, so the four agreements in Tomago terms, terminology is a way that we agree with the world is the way that we create our reality. So. It comes across as quite literal, but for me, the way I would talk about these is the stories that we make up of reality.

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    So he talks about if someone if a parent tells a child that they’re bad and that they agree and you agree with it, that becomes your reality. If someone tells you that your rubbish is coming and you agree with that, that becomes your reality. So the four agreements are and where he talks about these are being agreements that you break, agreements you make with yourself to free yourself from those conditions. So the full agreements are to be impeccable with your word now are impeccable.

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    The word comes from Latin means to be without sin. So it’s really about using your word, without judgment, without blame, not to harm and not to hurt yourself or others. The second agreement is not to take things personally, that none of it’s about you and where we take anything on. That’s because we’ve taken it personally. The. Third agreement is to make assumptions that we tend to justify how we feel with logic, and so we justify the emotion that we feel by the reality that we create that justifies how we feel.

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    And a fourth agreement is to do your best. So before so you’ve been in the breakout rooms and we’ve been you were talking about who would you be if you’d been born into a different family, into a different culture of a different gender, a different religion, different social class? So basically, all the things that are externally tell you who you are, your role, your position, the way people treat you, if all of those were different.

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    Who would you be? So I’m interested in what struck anyone as they were discussing their. You might have to amuse yourself, but just tell me what I struggled to tell myself because I thought it was more about of wanting to understand other characters than actually having some sort of an internal thing that I want to be different. I guess maybe I’m just being pompous, but I’m a bit more comfortable with where I am with things. I know if that’s just me.

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    What do you mean as you’re more comfortable with where you are things?

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    Well, I mean, I don’t look at it, so I wish I was I wish I was over another it or nature or organization of country or origin or anything like that. I don’t have that kind of that kind of effect.

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    Now, the real issue with this is not where would you have like to be born, but how much of who you think you are comes from what everyone’s told you, from all the external influences and how much is come out internally? Oh, because if something that would be similar, if you were born entirely someone else and like a different gender and everything else, then there’s a spark that’s you. Because all the other things, because of your gender, because of your couch, because of your being in all the things that you’ve learned from your family and so on, are all things that come outside and tell you who you are.

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    So it’s about who would you be, what would still be there of your across all of those things?

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    I think it will be more like what I was going was more like what I am now because I was all those social conditioning, if you like, external conditioning up until well, I guess call it a mid-life crisis if you want. But up until my 30s, 40s, in fact, and then I kind of had a situation where on the self reflecting and started to actually be more myself in a way I grew up, if you like, became more mature.

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    And then recently I went through this divorce. I grew up again, and especially in this last phase, a lot more of the time because I stopped the notion of these being seeing the well, I said being the perfect father wasn’t perfect, but being conditioned into being OK, the husband. So you do this and you sacrifice everything and all the rest of it. And that was at the expense of being bigger. And so what I now sort of the kind of things that will come out of it is perhaps about messing around.

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    That’s just me. I like to do that. Have a laugh. I mean, those things need to be serious. I can be quite serious, quite analytical, but I think I don’t want to sit there and have a long career. And I mean, don’t get me wrong, I like an intellectual debate, though. And again, I like it as well. But it is something I will sit there and begin to have when something comes up.

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    I quite enjoyed it. So I think the key thing will be if you can’t have a laugh, then it’s probably not worth that moment. So for me, it’s it’s messing around really. Well, that will is the one thing that will come out. So spare a fun. Yeah. Yeah. Cheeky one as well, you know, and I know my my 13 year old works out sometimes he will do something wrong or whatever and I might pull him up on it and he’ll have a kind of a cheeky come back on that kick.

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    And you know, I take it as the understands that he’s done it wrong, but he’s kind of doing a cheeky comeback as well. And it’s perfectly fine. You know, I like that sort of thing or I will do something and he will take the milk out of me. And that’s perfectly fine. I like that. It’s a bit like I went to have a chest x ray because my dick is something and I just had to jump around like this.

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    And the nurse said, But you’ve got to take the jumper, you can’t do the extra jumper. So I said, yeah, but. I don’t have anything underneath it that you still have to. So I said, OK, but on the one condition that people laugh at my belly. And she looked at me and she went now she said, I want the world to love me. So I thought that was great. You know, I just I thought I’d come back.

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    The love with a straight face. I wasn’t quite sure, but she was joking. But the point is, is that kind of sense just humor makes you smile. For me, that’s that’s one of the most memorable. And keep anyone. I actually came for a old I born in one country, then my family moved to another country and I end up now in UK. So for me, I’ve been into different cultures. I learn three different cultures and they’ll be honest.

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    If I could change again, I wouldn’t be the same person. I wouldn’t be the same person because I wouldn’t go through the same stories, the same pain, the same pleasure. That’s actually what they ship us. OK, so is there a part of you that if you were. Both an entirely different family, a different gender. Completely different social background. What would be the part that would still be deciding what’s the like, the part that is Janosz?

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    Without any external. If the parents wouldn’t be the way, they wouldn’t teach me to wait, how I went through so far, probably I would still remain for that child. Kind of little behavior mentality, which actually, as you see the world, is that kookiness is that’s the coldest city when you’re looking out for the world to grow, to look at something, whereas the beauty is something what you want to expand experience. But it’s all depending on the experience, what you got, because the stock you as a child, because you can’t make it longer.

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    I think I have something I wouldn’t want to change my sense of independence, pushing boundaries. That’s me. I like to lose, I sense I sense that from knowing you from meet ups, because your story seems to have been that you fought against what was imposed on you. So, yeah, I could sense that that was. Tom. That was something that I think is inherently a new. Were are you going to share something? Yes, hello, um, I don’t know if it’s right or not, but I said I wanted to be an American Indian chief, a male because of the.

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    Well, I like how they go, how. And then I like they’re always in charge and they’re always people who get you get looked up to. So like in my family and my friends, I’m always the organizer, always the one that sorts out this, that and the other and kind of the top, like the king or the queen. And I thought it would be good to maybe have be the male side of it and also to learn the spirituality that they know, like the rain dances and the voodoo and things like that.

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    How and if you were in that position, what do you think you would have in common with who you are now? Oh, I’d be really busy and really organized and just I was just trying to help everyone as well. So if there’s a problem, I, I feel that the American Indian chief, the top guy is when people go to them, when they’ve got problems or if they just want to have a chat or whatever and maybe a bit of healing as well because, you know, talking and that with healing and stuff.

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    OK, thank you. Thank you.

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    Anyone else you buy that you just phrased that question when you said, what would you have in common as the other version of you with the current news? But how can you quantify that? Because we were saying that so much of who we are is our nature or nature and nurture. In other words, we don’t choose our parents, so we don’t choose our genetics and the personality in that sense. And we don’t choose where we’re born and the culture and the education.

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    So how can we say what all of us in a different environment would actually carry over? Definitive and scientifically? We can’t, but it’s about trying to separate. All of life is a story, and it’s the story of what happened to me. It’s the story of the situation I’m in. So all of that is a story, and so we can’t we can’t really scientifically, but in somewhere in that story, there’s a sense of who you intrinsically and how much has happened because of our circumstances.

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    So you’re right in terms of the genetics and things like that, that’s very difficult. But it’s more in a sense of we’ve talked about layers of the onion. Now, most of those on the external are what you look like, who who are like the family you came from, what you’ve believed, what your experiences have been. But in the core of that, somewhere there’s something that’s inherently you. So it’s trying to get to that. Does that make sense?

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    Yeah, that does make sense, but if you say this part, that’s inherently you, then wouldn’t that shift if you had different genetics with different parents?

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    Possibly it would depend. So genetics, I’m telling you, we’ll give you most of how intelligent you are that give you most of your temperament as you have your extrovert introvert whenever your how where you are neurotic spectrum. So give you lots of that. But maybe is there something to like, something you talked about that sense of independence, of wanting to be who she was, regardless of the circumstances. Everyone and Janell’s talked about having a spirit of fun.

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    So that’s not maybe some of that’s genetic, but we can’t really separate because we I mean, we still don’t even really know who is who is genetic and who’s been and what is genetic. We’re still figuring out that. But this is more in terms of because we never actually can do this. But it’s a way of going, OK, what are these outliers? The army. And what’s the core of who I am? So it’s more of a story of how you’re constructing it than actual scientific reality.

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    Course, sorry, you’re about to say something. Thank you for your patience, and that’s fine, I think. I can’t believe I picked up on it from the onset, which is what it points to, which is a fundamental philosophical question. What’s at your core? I would say, Sandra, we had a good chat about it and that there is the nature nurture thing. But what about beyond that? And we were also talking about different classes.

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    And it is quite common that you can have people who are from the upper echelons who are really trashy. So some of them are stuck with that in mind. It really does tap into something to say, is there a part of us which is really philosophical, but is there a part of us that comes into this world already as we are? It’s not formed and changed. And I was thinking of the line from The Matrix versus the Matrix. Cannot tell you who you are, which is interesting.

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    I don’t really have a clear answer, but I just want to say that it definitely points to something interesting close. And that is that and this is quite a hard thing to talk about. But you can meet someone so lovely and just tick so many boxes and then there’s no chemistry. So that has to relate to something deeper that connects and bonds beyond just ideas of ourselves.

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    I think and I think that you’ve raised a really big point, that there is always that nature. But nature and nurture have to work on something that has to be a seed, that has to be something to nurture. So is so I believe that this is a blueprint and it’s a blueprint of its genetics and it’s it’s something that’s unique to you. And then that plays out in the environment. And I think of it is like a plant. If you see the plant in the wrong environment and wolves roam around.

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    So it’s going to wither. But if you put it in the right optimal, then it turns out to be whatever it was meant to be. So, yeah, I think there is definitely that. Sense of something beyond nature, nurture, because otherwise what is there to nurture and. Yes, so I think there is. I look at people as being an idea, like an idea, like the world, like the Matrix is a context to explore and express an idea and the idea.

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    Do you think the idea is a physical thing as a biological perhaps in the brain, or do you think that idea is a non-physical thing, as in some metaphysical spirit? Well, all of this depends on all of this, depends on, you know, when we talk about connection, level of connection, the level two to the connection of life. So it depends on how you how you, whatever your representation of that is. And if if it is that you you believe in, like souls and stuff like that, then then.

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    Yeah. And some people will believe it comes from past lives and there’s some spirit of energy. But really, life is just energy. Everything in life is. Just a flowing energy and the energy that is ours isn’t the law of energy that it can never be destroyed, can’t be created, can’t be destroyed. So there’s just energy. And so, therefore, what we are is an expression of the energy. So if you want to take it really deep, yeah, there is nothing really personal.

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    Yeah, but if if energy can’t be created or destroyed, then how do we blame death? Well, Daffy’s is a personal construct that is a human construct because, of course, there is a physical death. But in terms of that energy, when you look at energy. The energy cell, the body disintegrates and becomes part of the soil and then it like that soil then becomes something. So the energy just continuously flows, but it changes form.

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    So while the energy may be human and then it becomes non-human. So because we look at the world from a human construct of that, everything matters in human terms, the way we have dominion over the planet. But actually the world’s been going for billions like the life when you look at Big Bang has been getting millions and billions of years and we’re just one expression of millions. So when we say that you like life ends because we die, it doesn’t have we become if we were extinguished as a species, if the planets extinguished the energy, still something else.

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    So life always goes on. Life always expresses itself. And what we cannot hear when you go really deep is what expression of life. Away right now. But what you need to start thinking about energy and life in terms that are quite difficult, in the sense that we are looking at each other, so we see our physical form. But in terms of energy, we have to think in more abstract terms. You start thinking about energy that you can’t see, but you may experience, for example.

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    And if you think of things and think of energy, terms of sound, light, um, wind, it’s it takes you away from having a defined form.

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    And in other words, I’m trying to get that there is there energies that you can’t package as neatly as the human form? And in that regard, then I think it is easier for us to think of energy morphing from one state to another. And that’s what it’s what what happens in the real world. We move from one state to the other, energy from one state to the other. It can be excited. It can be addressed. It can be seen as light.

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    It can be heard a sound. It can be seen as movement. So there are different forms of energy. And if we think of ourselves and our expressions, those are all manifestations of of energy that we emanate from us.

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    But we are a manifestation of energy. Then that’s interesting. When you said what did you just say? What what are we I mean, what else could we be other than what we are human?

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    Well, um, so when we’re looking at we’re energy manifesting. So in that sense, we we’re manifesting as a human human form. So. What makes energy manifest in different phones? So what makes the difference between a human, between a dog, between a flower or a tree? So maybe this is what’s different is is an idea, isn’t it? Yeah. Is the idea the intention behind the energy that the intention is that that is that’s the difference.

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    Yeah. Yeah. So which is it. I mean, could you have the intention to be a dog or plant. Well in order to to shape the energy, there has to be some intention to that blueprint, that DNA of a dog, the DNA of a human being I have a tree is what shapes the energy into. Into what it is. So we couldn’t we can’t go from like from the level of guy like I’m a dog and transmute that, but there is something behind like Deep Throat, like not where we go active.

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    It’s the ability to be proactive rather than the passive that that, in other words, to direct an action rather than have it happen to us. Can you explain that a little bit more? In other words, if you were to have say, oh God, chemistry, I don’t know, go to two atoms of hydrogen, atom of oxygen, and you work to have them open open space far apart, nothing would happen. But if you bring them together and it’s the direction, what is it that will bring them together close enough that they would then want to become a molecule of water?

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    So I’m saying that there is a direction, something is directed, if that’s what we are, we are capable of doing is to direct an action. And in other words, we direct that energy and we can define that energy. In other words, what form it takes place. It takes bid.

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    In terms of what we do or what we direct or how we direct it, you know, OK, so if we if we talk and we talk quietly, we can we determine that we are speaking quietly, like I’m trying to do here now or we shout we are in control. So I think it’s the ability to define and direct think. And I I used to watch with my kids, I used to watch this program and it was it took these kids that were really eating unhealthily, not doing any exercise.

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    And then what they would do is through computer simulation, they would show what they were going to look at 30, 50, 60, and it would tell their kind of life expectancy.

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    And so then they would like all these experts who come in and they change their diet and they change their exercise and they change the way that the parents interact with them. And after like three months or something, then they would re re go through like this, forecasting the trajectory of their life. And it would show up these two images of them at 30 and 50 or something like that of the difference between them eating well, between them exercising and like the healthy version of them and the like, really overweight and unhealthy version of them.

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    And it was like them and the parents were shocked at who they be. And that’s so I think once we come into like a human experience, we kind of track with we trapped within constraints, like every game has constraints. And so we can’t go, okay, I’m going to be a dog, but we can channel like. How much stress we have, how much how well we look after ourselves physically, the exercise we take, all of those things are going to.

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    It’s really about how how pure the energy is or how polluted it is. And then emotionally, we do the same. We can take on things that are purely us or those that. We have to fall back to David Hawkins power and force that we can operate from force, which is lots of stress and lots of tension or from power, we’ve kind of flowing. That makes sense. OK, there’s a question I think is useful to us. We’re going to go back into the break, Clarence.

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    And so the first agreement is being impeccable with your words, and I thought it would be useful to reflect. Who have you had with your words? How have you hurt yourself with your words? What struck you in your conversations? We went through about what we what we went through, it leads the assumption sometimes we assume the person want to say that or that’s the meaning behind. And sometimes these assumptions with our self slow, we don’t even know our own inner self what actually is really required or what we really wanted.

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    And also, we went through about Resay first itself, but actually we we agree on that, it’s actually it’s ego. The way how you treat your ego, the way how you would perceive or assume how other people want to treat you as well. So if you are treating kindly your ego because you are what you practicing. So you will be good on it, and if you practice practicing kindness, you will feel people kindness for you as well, and you can be kind for the people.

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    However, if you’re practicing for your ego or for yourself, talk like, oh, shut up, I don’t want to tell, you know, all this. That’s how you will feel for the People Azfar. So so you said when you open it was that it was about we when we don’t know. Was it? No, it wasn’t that, but it was. We don’t know what we don’t know yet. Simple if you can’t explain for yourself, you can’t explain for others and and what stops us from knowing I would be going along that line.

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    Subsidies from knowing is the judgment. Because we you know, I wouldn’t say judgment, we assume we already know, but factually we don’t know. We don’t even know our own self. What I’m saying, I only and I’m probably saying too much as well. I only know 20 percent myself. Yeah, and I think that’s probably the closest what people can really know themself or 50, but they can’t really know so much themselves because they got their unkosher in mind in the back working all the time and they don’t know that part.

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    So, yes, is the assumption that we know stuff that stops us from knowing.

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    Yes, because we assume we already know, but we don’t know. Every single situation will be different. Every single you know, if you have the same situation, the experience will be different. And we are focusing so much about physical things rather than the sensations we have to just to be there and sensitive to experience it. And what we do is that we want to understand that and we want to describe it all the time. But actually, that’s what we really need.

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    So I this the need to describe and to me to have words for it. Is that something to do with when we look back at history historically, we can look back at different periods in time and say this this belief or this assumption led someone to. So, for example, if we look at like in medieval times, there is an idea of medicine as being supernatural, being a curse from God or a curse from a witch. And so we looked for supernatural cures.

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    Now we look at medicine and we look for scientific reasons. But every paradigm has a limitation. And so the paradigm that we were in at the moment is more the scientific rational. But is the need to explain in physical terms, is that coming from the paradigm of our times?

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    I think it’s just simply because we only think we know something, if we can explain, but that’s not always really true. Do you really need to explain the love? Do you really need to explain the bond with your children? No, you just want to feel that you don’t really need to speak about that. Or do you? Well, I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. So in terms of love, in terms of the love that you have for your children, you don’t need to speak.

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    And probably we probably feel the same. A similar feeling. But if you don’t speak, it doesn’t mean you’re not paying attention. You’re not giving it consciousness. And what we give attention to and conscious, the two, we understand more and more refined levels.

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    So if we don’t have to talk about it and we don’t try to describe it, doesn’t it mean that we just we assumed whereas if we go in and we really look at what is love, what makes love? When do I feel more love? When do I feel less love? We understand that. At a better level. So, for example, I’ve got this ring and a ring and I’ve got it because it lets you in monitors everything, everything about you like heart rate and all of the different things.

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    And it tracks that, again, sleep. And it can tell you when your circadian rhythms, when the optimal time for you to sleep, what whether having coffee or alcohol or light meals or not eating impacts that. So the whole reason is to focus because I figured that sleep is a big trigger for lots of other things. That the biggest trigger for me feeling well the next day and being able to do everything good level is having enough sleep. So this enables me to pay much more attention.

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    So if. And I think this is one of the things that people have in relationships, we know what love is, we don’t need to talk about it. But by understanding all the different factors and how they all mesh together, doesn’t that allow us a deeper level? I think what you’re alluding to is affirmation in the sense that if you don’t speak about it, then the other day the person that you want to acknowledge your well to to the person who is on the other side, who is the subject of the love, you are expecting them to figure out that you love them without seeing it.

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    Is that what you’re saying? Can I add something to that issue so someone is talking about the sort of the not knowing? I think when it comes to a lot of the things that makes it very dangerous uncertainty, which is why, you know, they usually say that something that you can’t see or something you can’t control, you can hide you in ways you can’t imagine, which is why people beyond walls around them but who have the power to control, they know the one thing that can really put them down is that they can’t control it.

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    So they psychologically have these high walls around them that drive them to become the kind of people that someone who may be a fat boy or, you know, they go around whenever they feel that attraction, they distance themselves from that people because there’s that vulnerability aspect of it. And that’s what love does. That love gets you off your high horse and it makes you attracted to maybe someone from a very lower class, someone you affiliate yourself with. It’s that kind of thing.

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    So that uncertainty, I believe it can be very dangerous, which is why I think people try to understand it. People try to rationalize it. But still it comes. You are fucked. Sorry, I. It’s what everybody’s different and they what we all spoke with Betha about, it’s all belongs to our belief system. They do believe I mean I mean, not just you speak you actually your subconscious mind, it’s actually the same way. So your behavior and your word are matching.

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    And that’s when the moments are so great with that because they’re using their emotion, part of the brain where they can feel they can sense it. This they can’t describe it, but they can sense it somewhere, somehow with the energy. And as the men, because we think too much logically, we can see the same way. But there’s also the. Fear of rejection, there are layers attached to it. A man could feel. Similar emotions and would like to show his emotions, but being conditioned that there’s a fear of rejection, you might be rejected.

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    So it’s impacting his ego, their sense of shame, a sense of failure, etc., etc. And it depends on how the rejection is imparted.

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    You know, there are many nuances to the whole. To the dance, to that dance, because it is a dance, it’s between the parties and yeah, it depends on the response of the person to that is is getting the the signal, receiving the signal. It’s how they respond to it. And you’re right. Yes. The connection of the female and ability to show emotion, sometimes instinctively. But I think there are layers because females who have been rejected and shamed will also learn to put a curtain up and not show their emotions for fear of being rejected, denigrated, etc, etc.

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    So it goes both ways. What then? I think we go back to something that we spoke about several weeks ago or maybe last year.

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    Respect.

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    And uncomfort and being able to show your actual emotion so you can connect without fear of your emotions being derided and your sense of self feed shame. All projection, I got very interesting part of it, because quite often we assume rejection by mean diverting between each other. But what I feel sometimes is just simply our body rejection, what we call it chemistry. I don’t believe on that word of chemistry. It’s something there. But we don’t really ever about my attraction of Woodmore matching we just don’t even know about.

    [00:43:32.525] 

    So my question is rejection. What we really mean by that sometimes woman is just rejecting the men’s body will not react in the way when we get the action or just the wording rejections or there is chemistry.

    [00:43:50.525] 

    Believe me, there is chemistry. I will argue with you on that one. There is chemistry. OK, OK, light pheromones, whatever you want to call it, and all of the other things. It happens. Right. OK, been there. Done that. No. So that’s OK. Let’s put that aside. But then there is also this kind of of chemistry as well. Forget the physical one. There is the meeting of the minds in a sense.

    [00:44:21.695] 

    And you’re right. I think it’s it’s. Is the response still and whether it will if it’s elicits a response in the other person? What you see and how you see it and what you do, that is part and parcel of this song and dance. No, I don’t know.

    [00:44:51.255] 

    I just got sometimes this question and then they just can’t describe it because I’m in the right position. So I can’t see myself from outside. So what I’m looking for all I can get the information, what I can see.

    [00:45:08.745] 

    And the other thing before was that how we hurt ourselves with words is the negative self talk and how that gets internalized. And then we were saying it was tied to a belief system, but I was asking what comes first, the belief system will the false because I said that if we have negative voices in our head that we might have taken them from our parents or carers and then they become the belief system where we would question it the other way around, that we have false.

    [00:45:40.085] 

    Do we have a belief system and that generates the false. But then I said, it’s all unconscious, isn’t it, because if our parents are saying negative things and we take on that that belief system. It’s unconscious anyway, isn’t it? But then we have that internal monologue or those words going on, so we’re talking to ourselves in a negative way, but it’s not our voice, as it were. I think a lot of people I think there’s a lot spoken about about the unconscious, as if it’s this kind of mysterious, unknowable thing.

    [00:46:13.765] 

    But I think they’re unconscious. So, for example, I remember when my daughters were really young, I looked at education and child development and it was like I remember reading the Montessori method and they talked about how children learn these abnormal things because something happened. Someone told them, really, you like, don’t do that. And remember, there was an instance of someone putting boots on a table or something and got shouted out and then he would never put boots down or something like that.

    [00:46:50.575] 

    And when they look back, it was because of that instance. And so there’s lots of things that we learn because of something that happened to us, because a teacher told us to shut up. Nobody’s interested in what you’ve got say. And so we stay quiet and that voice and it’s it’s only unconscious because we’re not paying attention to it. But if we really go in and go, well, why where did this happen from, then it becomes conscious.

    [00:47:21.335] 

    So the unconscious is what we then pay attention to. So it’s not that we don’t have access to it, it’s that we just found because we’re focusing somewhere else is all the other stuff that we’ve picked up. So I think it’s the nature of how we learn as a child, like we all life just happens, like with their life is happening and what we do. And it’s trying to make sense from the context. So that’s where even if we have perfect parents, we’re still going to get flawed ideas because we misunderstand in the context.

    [00:48:05.185] 

    So I think that the that’s really where the beliefs come from. But then we hold on to those beliefs until we become aware of it, and it’s the assumption and it’s the operating without the focus that creates the. The unconscious, yeah, the unconscious, because we just operate, as we always do, when you say pay attention to your feelings, is that your feelings that give you the signal of what’s happening in your unconscious?

    [00:48:44.905] 

    Well, for me, emotions and I’m not sure like I think Janice and I were talking about different things and maybe Janice was talking about experience or this like emotion and versus logical. And there’s something in that. But I think where we.

    [00:49:14.525] 

    Where we pay attention, yeah, I think when we feel an emotion, when we feel negative, it’s a sign that our story is out of sync with reality. So I think we should experience until we feel negative, when we feel a negative emotion, that’s a sense of our and our story about reality is jarring with reality is something that doesn’t sync up. And so that’s when we pay attention to what is what is the what’s causing the jarring.

    [00:49:49.335] 

    But isn’t there something to be said about. And let’s go back to the beginning of our lives.

    [00:49:57.975] 

    We are bombarded on all sides by all kinds of stimuli. OK, and what. If we have no filters and we have no barriers and we have no way to filter some of those out, we would all be a perfect example of a mess. We would be how could we cope? Because we’d be overstimulated. We would not prioritize anything. We would not know what is good for us and what’s bad for us.

    [00:50:35.605] 

    So as we as we grow old parents, probably the first barriers that we have who help us to define what is a good influence or a good idea or a good thing for us. And then, of course, there is school, there’s all of the different layers, church, whatever, as we as we go forward. Some might not be so good, some whatever. But anyway, we build up our filters. And so I think that in our subconscious, there are certain things that probably stay with us for life, which that’s probably imprinted in our minds and probably reinforced by later experiences.

    [00:51:23.605] 

    And there’s a whole plethora of other minor ones that really don’t have much effect and that we have probably screened out and are and, you know, and unless something triggers it, they won’t come up and affect us, so to speak. But by and large, I think we are. And we are structured in such a way that we are able to do to to to derive no, not derive to filter out. And hold on to those those those those things that have happened to us that either make us stronger, better or impact us negatively.

    [00:52:15.385] 

    And that to me, which which way we go is probably as a result of those those filter systems that we have been able to, as I said, parents school, whatever our own sense of self as we mature that help us. To keep them in control and to take the ones that we that helped to make us better. Or hold on to the latch onto the ones that really are not good for us, because it depends, I suppose, on what pushes us, which way, whichever way they are of life, is really it’s really managing.

    [00:52:58.615] 

    The continual processing of information, so through our senses, so people who don’t have a filter already signed, they can’t cope with life and the people that there’s something wrong and it filters them work and they just overloaded go insane. We are not passive, this is this is a thing we are not passive, but I suspect it if you if you are and then we go back to things, which would probably be another conversation when people talk about confidence and strength of character and self belief and all of those things, exactly what are they and how do they come about and how do you develop those to enable you to.

    [00:53:52.645] 

    B is supposed to be the best person that you can be and be in control of all of those externalities that can impact your your sense of self.

    [00:54:05.645] 

    Hmm, yeah. Yes, so so like if we don’t have a filter, we go mad, but equally, people who are in sensory deprivation tests like they’re in, like they can’t feel anything, they can’t hear anything, can’t see anything like in a floatation tank. And people have been 20 minutes before they lost all sense of reality before, like they were insane, saying it was like 20 minutes to two hours. Like if you take away every sentence, every sensory input and you have nothing.

    [00:54:43.905] 

    So that actually sends you insane. So what the the art of living is really about how we filter. Which is about what do we make sense of and that comes down to what do we value, what’s important to us? And so it’s that real sense of meaning, of purpose of. We have that determines and so we then create life in a sense of what’s good, what’s bad, and that’s all based on our operating model, which is beliefs and assumptions.

    [00:55:31.405] 

    So the life is really about how do we filter all the information coming in? How do we make sense of it? How do we make meaning out of this mass of. Stuff that we can’t process all of it. So how was the sensory deprivation tank relevant? He’s saying that because the brain is deprived of information, they can’t make any sense of the world, and that makes the brain insane.

    [00:56:04.165] 

    Yeah. So when I did these tests and it’s like people in prisoner of war camps and things like that, or they’re in torture. So basically they had no sensory. No sensory stimulation. So the people that were really mentally strong were the ones who were able to create a sense of reality, they were able to create a conversation internally in their head. They were able to tell themselves the story that kept them with a sense of sanity. And I’m trying to think of of an example, but I think I can’t remember the details.

    [00:56:48.515] 

    But I remember Terry White had some way that he said that he made sense of like 20 years of being chained up. But the people who went insane, like in 20 minutes had no internal sense of. Like being able to to. Tell a story like they were they were wholly dependent on you and you get this, and this is an introvert extrovert thing that extroverts need external stimulants. Introverts have so much internal stimulus that too much becomes uncomfortable, which is why they when they’re tired, they want their own company.

    [00:57:32.505] 

    And so it’s about how how much of you is driving your reality and how much you taking from other people. And when you look at social media in the news, all of these things, it’s other people creating drama. So if we look at. The cinema on Netflix, all of these films, that’s about someone entertaining us, so we go to the fetus as someone else entertains us, we read books or someone else entertains us and how much?

    [00:58:08.475] 

    So when you look at, like the monks who meditate for hours and that what they’re doing is, is they’re not looking for any external stimulus. Yeah, that really makes sense. I get what you’re saying about the having the ability to tell your own story and keep your mind sane in that way rather than needed something to dictate a story. Yeah, and I think I think that life. Is about gives us all these challenges in all these contexts and all of those challenges are about how do I make sense of this?

    [00:58:45.995] 

    You know, someone is put in a concentration camp. Most people would think that they would have no quality of life, that they would have no self direction. And yet people’s experience is that Viktor Frankl talked about it and about there were always some people that were that fry, some people that didn’t, some people that were strong, some people that weren’t. And then there was a there’s another admiral who was more recently he was in a concentration camp and he talked about, they said, who survived and they said who didn’t survive.

    [00:59:27.835] 

    And they say he said the ones who thought they were going to go out and that he survived, the ones he found that they were going to get out. And he said they just had the certainty that ultimately they would get out. And they had this is like Viktor Frankl talked about people who had something to live for outside. And then they said who didn’t go out. And he said, well, it’s the optimists. And they said, well, isn’t that the same thing?

    [00:59:50.945] 

    They said, no. The optimists thought they were going to go next week, next month. And when they didn’t, they gave up. But the people who were just like, I’m going to get out. And they just it was more of a general intention and a long term goal. So, yes, sorry also about the thoughts of David talking certainly nicely, explaining and talking about the problem. What we do. We do attach for our thoughts, we think we do have we are the thoughts, it’s ours belongs to us rather than we do have a thoughts if we want to observe it, if we want to understand it, we do that.

    [01:00:39.995] 

    If not, we just let it flow. We just let it go. We don’t really need to do something about we just need to understand, is there part of the nature to be there? We don’t need to be have it. It’s good to have it. Same with the body, what he said. I’m not the body. I do have a body. It’s a bit like people want to own the false. Where is there just a flow and because then we attach pride and ego of the wife.

    [01:01:22.095] 

    Look what I’ve come up with where? Yeah, it’s it’s really it’s just a flow that comes to you, Ofri. I was. I would like it as a consciousness, the best example I can give is perhaps if you’re watching a film and you’re completely engrossed, you’re not thinking perhaps more in a being state is a very cautious example. But it will do his thing. The we can exist like that. But thoughts are really seductive. They give us a sense of self.

    [01:02:00.805] 

    They give us a sense of control of tomorrow. I do this that on that map and then so that that kind of constriction and that feeling, it’s it’s very addictive and it keeps you present, as we were talking earlier about an idea of yourself and a belief in yourself and your person. I don’t know if that sort of on.

    [01:02:23.155] 

    Yeah, it definitely does. I’ve always noticed that people have a control strategy. And we have these ways of so some people to try and control circumstances, some people want power because they feel that they can they have because if they have power, they can control things. And I recognize mine was I want to those things. So I always felt like if I knew enough that I’d know how to handle a situation, that I’d know the dynamics that were controlling it.

    [01:03:00.175] 

    But really, there’s limits to control strategies that they only work for a while in certain instances. And yeah, really, it’s about. That being the only real you can’t really control you can’t control life, you can’t control people, you can’t control life.

    [01:03:24.375] 

    It’s an experience. But that’s scary because what we all we’re scared. We’re scared of the experience of life. And so we try and control life. We try and manage it. And this is why people indicting people are like, I need someone like this, this, this, this and why. And it’s because they they feel that if they do that, they’re not like my ex. And now I can control this and I won’t feel that. So, yeah, it’s we try to control what we’re scared of experiencing.

    [01:03:59.215] 

    But then that speaks to why some people give over and give themselves over to institutions, be it clubs, communities, religion, whatever, because it gives some sort of structure and it takes away the need to make certain decisions. And it gives you it makes your life more streamlined. So there seems to be more certainty attached to your life and how it’s going to play out. And with that certainty comes the level of comfort. Where that plays out, I’m not saying that it’s going to be like that, but in your head, the assumption is that this is the way it’s going to be and these things are taken care of and this is whole.

    [01:04:54.855] 

    So having that map, you feel relaxed and you move along. You are moving along that trajectory that’s planned out for you. You don’t. So this and I suppose in some predominantly Western societies, that sense of individuality that we take for granted along with that is a greater sense of uncertainty. The two go together. That’s where it’s David Hawkins it’s talking about. We attach for every thing we like to be attach, so many people attach for this, so many for that, and we do have expectations when we can remove this attachment and expectation for the outcome, we can more freely leave.

    [01:05:48.965] 

    Because we would be not disappointed in more. Yeah, we can’t be disappointed without expectation. But we also put pressure on people because we see the sort of things that, oh, you are now 21, when are you going to get married or to have children? These are all external pressures being put on you. So, you know, you are navigating not only your own sense of self and determination, your self determination as to who you want you want to become or you’re trying to become.

    [01:06:33.415] 

    But it’s also navigating the expectations of others that have been imposed on you for you, because while you are becoming your own person, you also need to conform to the society within which you existed. And so it’s the two things. How do you play them together?

    [01:06:54.445] 

    Can I have a question? About what? Oh, sorry. Can I can I just can I just pick up on that? I think there is the as you try to become yourself and any sense of individuality, everything and everyone else is going to try and constrain you because they’re going to feel uncomfortable because they’re not going to know what you’re going to be and therefore they feel out of control. So there is definitely that. That clash of people want you to change, because then that becomes scary because they don’t want to know how to handle that.

    [01:07:35.695] 

    So, yeah, there’s definitely a conflict. Sorry, Betty. Well, I was just looking at the comments and somebody wrote a while ago that police constructive force. But then somebody said, you have a way around that false construct beliefs. And I was just wondering what you think. Um. I don’t know if Clara wants to talk. I’m either really opposed. I think I just give my perspective on the way I think in my experience, I like it.

    [01:08:17.355] 

    A while back, I didn’t go down the rabbit hole of motivational speakers and inspirational books and all these philosophical ideas on meditation and thought. And I think I did come to a conclusion. I was trying this for positive and positive thing. I was I trying to give it a try. And what I thought in my experience, I tried so hard to control my thoughts. I was going through this is that period of depression, anxiety. And I think they said they almost cried.

    [01:08:53.745] 

    I just I remember saying to myself, why don’t you just stop thinking? And I could feel the way to the emotions of all me because I was really trying hard to control the thoughts and and later on actually realize I don’t remember where I read it, but I came to understand that, you know, you could actually control or you could influence your belief system. And your thoughts are merely just you can’t control what you think. You don’t decide to, you know, decide to think, you don’t decide the thoughts that come out of you and them.

    [01:09:39.535] 

    And I think this is. This might be an example, you know, that people who have thoughts of people who have dark sexual thoughts, I’m not going to specify which one. Many people say they cannot control those thoughts. They have those ideas that come out of somewhere, but they can’t really control it. I’ve seen some people trying to seek help for those dark sexual thoughts and ideas in them. But I guess I can jump. I can think of is meditation.

    [01:10:13.605] 

    I’ve been to a few meditation sessions and a few teachers. And one of the things that I have learned from most of them is they don’t say, well, you’re here to control your thoughts. You just hear to. Watch your thoughts, you just watch them, you know that to control them not that long, you don’t meditate or you’re going to learn to control your thoughts, just that to watch them sort of detach yourself from the thinking mind.

    [01:10:43.865] 

    I think that’s what it actually says. You just that you just see the thought. It’s not you. It’s not it comes out of somewhere, but it’s not you. You’re not the thinking mind. They zero the boat and then these the Thinka, so just watch to the thinker and let him think. Don’t sort of detached from the thought completely, but at the same time, don’t attach yourself strongly to it to just watch it. Yeah, yeah, what immediately comes to mind when you start talking was meditation, and I think it’s true, I think that you can’t like thoughts, just randomly fire off.

    [01:11:29.855] 

    But it’s a bit like trying to manage a force is a bit like trying to manage people that whether it’s a classroom of kids or it’s an organization or a work team, you can’t manage the people, but you can manage the context. So if you put. If you set like a frame for a class of children and you say, OK, what we’re gonna do is we’re going to work together, we’re going to build this thing, and you set like some kind of project that has more influence on how people behave than saying, do this, study this.

    [01:12:14.885] 

    And in the same way of an organization that if you set the culture of an organization that has more impact. Then setting down laws and of do this and I do this, so, yeah, for thoughts, trying to control forces. Is an endless it’s like a fool’s errand because you can’t because otherwise what you’re what you’re trying to do, your thoughts are what happens. And if you then try and control them, you’ll you have to control this for and then what happens when the random fool comes in?

    [01:13:02.575] 

    And so this is why people struggle with meditation. But when you look at the force that we have, based on what we think is relevant, what we think is important, and if you challenge the assumptions that underpin. What are guiding things for, what is relevant, what is valuable, what is what is useful to us, then you have more impact on the direction of your thoughts. Does that answer your question? I suppose I was more interested in where our beliefs come from.

    [01:13:53.815] 

    So I was interested in the idea that it’s our faults that create our beliefs. So what I’m saying is how do we change or restructure our beliefs? OK, so a belief is really I have an assumption that’s laid down. So we have an assumption that this is true because somewhere we get attention and decided it was and we acted as if it was and not acting as if it was laid down in our neurology. It becomes hardwired. And because we then act on that without really thinking about it, we just assume it’s true.

    [01:14:34.945] 

    And so we operate as if that makes it hard wired in our brain circuitry. And so because we’ve we’ve already done that, we assume we know that is true. And so we act as if it is. And so that’s how the belief, like a thought, becomes hardwired into a belief. And so the way that you change the belief is, is you challenge the assumption and then you have to consciously. Contradict that belief until you replace it with a new belief.

    [01:15:19.065] 

    So it is cyclic by nature, but at the same time, the only real malleable part is the thought. You don’t change how something is necessarily hard wired in and of itself, you can fundamentally change your thoughts, which then brings you back into the loop of changing your beliefs by your thoughts. Yeah, well, you can rethink. So. A thaw happens, so what happens based on your blueprint, which is your genetics and your and your operating system of the story, and then generates the fall, but you then get to test the fall, is the true or not?

    [01:16:07.995] 

    Because F4 is really a hypothesis. So it just randomly comes up, so whether you believe it as a statement or whether it’s a question to explore. How you treat that four determines. The impact it has. Does that make sense? Yo. But I think what I was, yeah, a lot, and I like the explanation, but what I was really pointing to is that this is pretty much a chicken and egg isn’t holding the other bottles together.

    [01:16:50.715] 

    So, yeah, yeah.

    [01:16:52.315] 

    Yeah. So, I mean, initially we only have thoughts, but as we as we develop those early faults, we’ve decided this. We’ve decided that this is a bottle, this is a mug and those decisions. Then become hard wired. OK, so the thoughts crystallize into beliefs over time, and I suppose as they are tested in some way or the other, they coalesce into beliefs. But that would suggest that there is a tension between thoughts and beliefs, because the more beliefs you build, um, I would think that there then becomes that tension with the new thoughts, with new thoughts, because some of those new thoughts may be in direct contradiction of some of those beliefs that are already put down.

    [01:18:01.705] 

    And then that becomes the confusion in the mind could become a confusion in the mind. Yes, it’s a growth and evolution is really a contradiction of past, because what’s holding us back in the sense of being ourselves is the false beliefs that we have. So every problem that we have is because of something we’ve learned that we assume that isn’t true. And so this is really what the in the four agreements is, what some ways that they don’t take things personally and don’t make assumptions.

    [01:18:37.615] 

    And so it’s really assumptions that are what keep us stuck. And so I always look at it as Michaelangelo’s when he was doing David the statue, someone said, but how do you how did you create such a beautiful thing? And he said it was already there. I just chipped away the surplus. And I think of people’s journey is much the same in that Bionicle in people’s journey. The same is that it’s not that everyone is trying to become something like what do I have to learn?

    [01:19:17.875] 

    Who what do I have to know? It’s not that you have. It’s what are you doing that’s holding you back? What is the belief, the assumptions that is stopping you from being free? So it’s really just taking away it’s more taking away than learning something new because we can laugh, have that like our blueprint is just us. So it’s all the things that aren’t us that we’ve taken on, because often we do take on beliefs like a belief can be, you know, we were a little child and the teacher says something or your parents say something.

    [01:19:57.625] 

    You think that adult knows everything. And so you automatically it becomes automatically a belief. And it might be until you. Twenty five. I can’t remember the specific one, but it was something about one of my teachers are told there’s something about I think it was about Romans or Greeks and I just assumed it was true. And I remember reading something and realizing that that was fundamentally flawed. And so there’s loads of things that we learn more subtle, but we just automatically assume because the person had that authority and like you said, Sandra, about, you know, why do we why why do we want to belong to religions and institutions?

    [01:20:41.905] 

    Because they give us those TaylorMade set of beliefs. And so it’s it’s easy. And if you’re not confident that you can navigate your way, then it helps to have faith in someone else. So it makes you more comfortable.

    [01:21:00.715] 

    But how have we as people not cottoned on to things like that, us so paper thin and so much as if they are just even it mildly the internal reaction that comes from somebody who has unexamined beliefs or the what you might call being Trager’s, that that doesn’t. People don’t seem to learn from that or see that. And also the other thing is, I hope this is connected. But like, say, for example, if you’re doing something that’s beneficial or better, I use it as a good example.

    [01:21:39.985] 

    The other person then really gets triggered an upset because I feel as if, well, what am I doing wrong automatically? Oh, I haven’t even examined the way that I that’s just one example. So, yeah, what I hope I was clear in saying something that the unexamined beliefs, which I don’t this is a bit cantankerous to say, but sometimes people in religion do it without examining exactly what they’ve been told or question that deeply, if I may say so.

    [01:22:11.155] 

    And they’re not commenting on how they react when that’s tested or when there’s something outside of that will present something with more clarity.

    [01:22:19.675] 

    Well, I think there’s layers of protection. And I’ll say this because my whole thing is that you have to challenge you have to challenge every belief. And so people on the basis of religion is basically that a book is not a book, but a Bible. And Sinclair and the whole the whole institution of, say, Christianity resides on the fact that you can’t challenge. The idea that a book that’s written by man. Is a divine source of. Other worldly wisdom.

    [01:23:05.515] 

    And so what happens is throughout history, you could never challenge that and we have today, like political correctness is just this surround that there’s all these kind of activisms going on. But in not being able to say a word and not being able to have an open and honest conversation about things, we’re not able to work out the differences. And it just becomes, if you say this, you’re wrong. If you say, you know, like you say this.

    [01:23:38.035] 

    And what happens, I think, is you get lots of people who jump on that bandwagon of this is the right thing to say. And they become they then generate like a sense of authority. And so religion and the monarchy, like kings, have always had this sense of you can’t question the king, you know, like the queen. The queen is. By right of birth, she is the head of a church which gives the church for her each other the authority.

    [01:24:23.935] 

    So like and the pope is infallible. Which is chosen by like smoke, and so there’s a book that’s written by men lots of years ago, and then other people can interpret that, but they interpret it because they’re ordained within this belief structure. So so there’s lots of beliefs that are that have that are protected because people and organizations have vested interests in the. But apart from OK, those are entrenched as parts of of control in societies, but I think also we need to learn how to structure questions and part I think part of warfare in many instances is that we we have a doubt, but we don’t know what it is that we want to question.

    [01:25:34.835] 

    And not ask the right, we can’t articulate the right question, then we cannot do the research into the into the issue, if you know what I mean. We can’t query the issue properly and decide whether or not you have an appropriate response. What is coming to you is the response to the question, because what is the question? Let me add for one thing for this. I believe we all of us the having a different mindset. David Hawkins, really nicely talking about that or a Cartola, you know, you got different kind of level where you you do this kind of knowledge, it help you to understand this way, the world.

    [01:26:19.895] 

    Then you got to different level. Latron that knowledge now would be completely different. Belief system has to come in order to support you. Then you’ve got a different level. There will be another difference in order to support you. It’s opposite down the aswell. When the people go for apathy and all these, they are having those belief system, everything. It’s criminal in the world, everybody, criminals so similar in this. So whenever we do ask in question, actually we can ask a million times in so many different ways.

    [01:26:52.685] 

    It’s just so many different ways you can see it. And all of them have a right. All of them in the reality world, it’s actually right that it’s no wrong. I think Hawkins was talking nicely about that. There is no. Darkness, that is just absence of the brightness. And if you look at this suite, it’s actually make you better feeling because you’re not anymore bad and good, but at the same time, humans crave certainty.

    [01:27:31.135] 

    That’s what we’re seeking. And part of that certainty comes from comes from looking at resolving issues, resolving questions, and to build our comfort, our level of comfort. We seek to get resolutions to do more and more and more questions. And sometimes it goes back to not being able to articulate questions properly. So the one that seems to give us the best estimate that comes our affairs, we latch onto it. Without necessarily understanding fully in some instances or embracing fully what that doctrine may be or that response might be, but it helps to calm our fears of uncertainty.

    [01:28:26.375] 

    And so we latch onto these various things. Hence we latch onto religion, we latch on to whatever it is, musical, elitist, whatever, whatever it is that works for us.

    [01:28:43.085] 

    And then we will find other uncertainties that we also always need to work through, because I don’t think that there is a human being who could see that they are certain about everything that’s part of our condition. And so we are constantly searching.

    [01:29:00.155] 

    But I think that there are some people who will never improve on the tools, the conduct, the search. I think. So I think there is so if we look at power in power in the sense of worldly power, not David Hawkins power, but worldly power comes from. Resolving people’s fears, so like the politician gets power because he says, I’m going to make a better world, I’m his home, I’m going to do it, the religion gets power because they say like, oh, and they tell a story.

    [01:29:45.805] 

    And the story is that, you know, there’s this other world and this and if you do this and and I’m in tune with and I know what I’m doing. And if you do this and this and this, you’re going to have a wonderful afterlife. And so that’s how we give up our power. And that’s how these institutions like government and church, these institutions and even corporate institutions have got power because they promise us Erva like security in a job or that the solution is going to make our life better.

    [01:30:26.425] 

    And so we give away our power and our money and in these ways. But there is what’s happened is over time, the people in power have controlled the context. And so a child grows up within an educational system that grows up within a religion, it grows up within the whole economic sphere where everyone’s messages have been honed. And so in that context is a sense that. If you ask this question, you stupid. If you ask this question, so I think like the perfect analogy, the perfect story that describes this is the emperor’s new clothes that so many of us are scared to question because we feel a sense of shame that we don’t know something that everyone else knows.

    [01:31:25.535] 

    And shame and shame is what silences us. And so because of that, we scared to question. And yeah, it’s really so like the third thing is what is it? Don’t assume and really the way that we don’t assume is by question, but we are taught from school that we have to have the answer and not the question, because the kid who had the question was always told to shut up or to stand outside. Where is the kid that had the right answer was got his name and the Gold Star and all of those things.

    [01:32:03.785] 

    He assumed that everybody else knows. And we are the only one who is going to be the dumb, the dumb one. And so we stay silent, not realizing that everybody else would love to know the answer as well. And you just need to be the brave one.

    [01:32:19.115] 

    And this is where I think I think over the last Brenly, Brown and Sakal, people like that are talking about being vulnerable and shame. And and there is a lot of people talking about how to ask a better questions. And yes, I think that’s really how will evolve. And in else is all of us. And I think when you look at generations so like we grow up and we rebel against our parents and then our children rebel against us and we become there’s something in that maturity that we reach a stage of life where we feel like we’ve reached there or we know this understanding.

    [01:33:10.295] 

    And that becomes when we become kind of entrenched in our in our view and we defend our own paradigm and we become stuck in our own paradigm is very rare to have someone who is of a generation. So you’ve got Generation X, the Boomers, Y, millennials, all of these things, and they have certain cultural beliefs because we believe something in a certain frame and time and say, like you’ve had the medieval time, you’ve had the rational scientific time, and maybe we’re moving into like the the spiritual experience in time or something like that.

    [01:33:54.695] 

    But each of us, we’re bound by the times of what we know. And it’s even because certain contexts like covid has meant that we’ve had to question assumptions. And is built up by the Internet, Internet shopping has been really slow to develop, even though the technology is there and people like that have been there is still a relatively small part and then cover this challenge, like the fact that we have these meetings online, the fact that people are now much more open to working remotely.

    [01:34:36.885] 

    So and it was like the wars triggered those things. covid triggered those things all, you know, sometimes that’s what what propels a generation. But then. For that, look, with the with what’s happening now, there could be a lot of backlash, but a response that the need to have physical contact and the fact that we took it for granted because we would go to the supermarket to go to the post office, to go to the banks to see human beings, if all of those things are taken away from you and go online into virtual world, what then are your opportunities to actually meet a human being in the flesh?

    [01:35:34.945] 

    And it’s not that you want to have a close relationship with the human beings that you see, but it’s reassuring to see them just to get a smile, maybe just a hello and nod or just to see that, yes, I’m still in a community of people and. And to take us away from feeling fair every time there’s a knock on our door and we have to open it to see if would be on the other side of the door. So this is now a new thing that we have to.

    [01:36:13.725] 

    Become comfortable with. Yeah, I mean, we’re hard wired, we need physical contact. Yeah, and it’s it’s also showing up things in relationships. It’s shown up. Yeah. So, yeah, there’s going to be I think there was a huge jump in understanding in terms of conformity and obedience and things like that after the World War, after World War Two. And I think there’s going to be huge in terms of connection. And yeah, there’s going to be there’s that sort of residual fear of needing to keep distance.

    [01:36:56.895] 

    And it’s quite strange that you watch people on TV or something and you see them and you’ve got to hang on. Why are they so? So, yeah, there’s a it’s going to it’s going to be really interesting to see what comes out of this. But I think there’s going to be a lot more need for human contact. But the norms of greeting that will also change because a handshake now you don’t shake hands anymore. OK, so things you know, the French greeting, the European greeting kiss on the cheek.

    [01:37:33.675] 

    And I mean, covid is removing all of that. I’m sure that they’re Amiry rubbing off noses is also going to get out of the way. So a hug. It’s probably going you know, those things are going to take on other meanings, so. What is then going to be acceptable? That’s that’s going to be interesting. Because I mean, for me, the fact that we’ve had this, we haven’t I mean, was it that one hundred years since the last pandemic?

    [01:38:17.025] 

    Yeah, global. So is there going to be another one like Bill Gates talks five years ago about this was going to be the biggest threat? So, yeah, that’s. That’s an interesting question, if you think there will be always some kind of danger, what make us to change? That’s the lesson from it. If you think the world where they make us change, if you think all that back, because we have to adapt for the new situation and the human are really great with that, it just need time.

    [01:39:02.785] 

    They are always adapting the new situation and it wouldn’t be the situation. They wouldn’t adopt it because we think thinking the man, if it’s lucky.

    [01:39:12.145] 

    But, you know, what we are looking at is that we already have a loaded arsenal of issues that we have to deal with as people, as a human being, a whole issue of mental health issues already. And what we are now saying is that we need to add another one into that basket, which is resilience and another type of resilience to deal with what is yet another uncertainty, because we don’t know if we don’t know what and we don’t know when that it will occur something of either a pandemic or a natural catastrophe.

    [01:39:59.915] 

    Because it could take any shape or any form. So in other words, I’m thinking that what we really need is to be resilient as a human being against uncertainty. Yeah. But if you think what’s happened, why all this happening? It’s a little bit because we forget to respect the boundaries, we forget to respect as human being the others. And it all goes back a little bit. The respect we didn’t respect the cleaning. We didn’t respect our time anymore.

    [01:40:41.955] 

    We didn’t really respect workers as the workers. We just want to get as much as possible from the people in the work. So many businesses are like that. No, and that’s why it’s building up. All these people are not respecting each other’s boundaries like Amazon with that mustache or, you know, it’s people. They get each if they complain, whatever reason, they will always be right. And I’m sorry to say, but that it’s not always right for that vision.

    [01:41:10.825] 

    Yes, it is, but only for that thousand people. No, I think we have to with that.

    [01:41:18.855] 

    I think that’s something else Sandra was just saying or someone was just saying. It’s ultimately a journey of life, isn’t it? Survival of the fittest, but also some code to it. There is obviously some good things coming out. I mean, we will be on this group if it would be. Anyway, good night, everybody. Have a nice week that they see that. Yeah.

    [01:41:45.345] 

    Yeah, I think it’s I mean, that’s the thing. Nobody knows what’s coming. That’s what makes life interesting.

    [01:41:53.115] 

    So but it’s just the ability that you need to have the ability to be able to not shrink from it in the sense of go into full retreat. You need to be. That’s what I think. We we don’t get the tools as we grew up and we become adults and to be able to not fear the unknown coming at us. I think this is really goes back to what Channel said quite early on. And it’s really about engaging with life. It’s not fear in life.

    [01:42:29.775] 

    It’s experiencing the pure experience of what is life and not trying to manage or control it. Yes, I do not think that everything that’s new and different is evil, bad and is not good. And it is not to be, you know, investigated, looked at, embrace that, whatever. Yeah. I think the human reaction is to control and control and limit everything because that’s what makes us feel safe. But life is always about breaking news and life is always going to fly over us.

    [01:43:10.215] 

    And it’s it’s being able to fly with life without trying to control or limit it. And that is the thing. It’s a bit like that. Bruce Lee said, be it be like water and it’s that ability to flow that is really the greatest strength. And it’s just fear that stops us from being able to do that.

    [01:43:37.775] 

    We want to grow this, to want to experience new things and to grow and to be better than you were yesterday and being be better in the sense of some tick in the box and adding a new dimension. Ta ta ta ta ta ta ta ta. Yourself to what you have experienced more labelling.

    [01:43:59.895] 

    You know, when we do labelling something, we feel it, we already experience it and we don’t want to experience it anymore. But in the end of the day, then, as the kids, we didn’t know something. We went out again and again experience it. So, so much we can learn from the kids. But as the adults, when you put the label bag. Oh, yeah, I already experience it. It was OK. Yeah, but you can experience a million times and little bit different sensation every single time because you can’t have 100 percent all that experience.

    [01:44:36.685] 

    Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s like familiarity breeds contempt and because we think we’re familiar with something we have contempt for. Oh, and I need something that I need something nice. And part of enjoyment of life is we think that we need new things to enjoy life. But really it’s about enjoying whatever is in front of us.

    [01:45:03.715] 

    Sometimes all we just need is a different is a renewal of context, change the context and the same experience becomes different, I’m sure. And that’s what we don’t do. In other words, we have lost our sense of adventure because it’s the same thing, but different circumstances and different just change some variables and it’s a different experience. Yes.

    [01:45:28.075] 

    And so really, what it’s what life is about is not controlling life, but controlling the context through which we view life, which is in a sense of meaning and purpose that we have and the first one. But we also do with labeling people what I learned from Hawkin’s assume people are good and everybody good. And if you do treated this way, they will treat you this way because, well, maybe they will disappoint you, but you are the gift opportunity for them.

    [01:46:01.225] 

    And if you give them, you will be not disappoint. It’s no disappointment. No expectation. Yeah. Like I know, for example, just to say, when we talk about experiences and just once and leaving it because we’ve done it, I read so many books before, I think I should have you know, when you’re a bored youngster, you read and read because there’s nothing else to do. Right. I no need to read them because when I read them, I didn’t understand them.

    [01:46:38.025] 

    Warrantees, I mean, come on, you don’t read that as a 12 year old. I mean, what is it? You know what I mean? And so there’s all of this literature that I now need to read, because though I think I will understand what they are about.

    [01:46:55.135] 

    I didn’t I was just reading words on a page out of just out of just boredom and nothing else to do.

    [01:47:03.345] 

    Yeah, I really, really reflect that for me because now I started different training and in that training, one of the ladies was talking in one of the textbook and she said it’s the way how we learn we should change it. We should first search for the meaning behind. So when we do reading and then we do all this, it’s only 20 percent are really information for us. And we have to tailor it for ourselves. It has to be sweet for your own world, so don’t take it the other person’s word.

    [01:47:43.455] 

    And we saw. We saw bond that for that to somebody teach us when we read the book, we learn from that, but actually it’s most of the information. It’s already inside of us. We just have to ask ourselves. But instead, what we do, we’re running away from our emotion and being ourselves busy. And also, what people don’t generally recognize is that a book that we think is great is really a book that echoes what we already fought.

    [01:48:21.205] 

    Because it’s too far from what we for where we can’t we can’t process that. So, yeah, it’s so there’s already a judgment based on what we already know. So, yeah, it’s it’s it. Yeah, it’s it’s not really about the book, it’s about where you stand in relation to that. And it’s been able to understand the context of what someone meant, the context of where they came to that point of view. So like when I’m reading the book, I’m trying to understand.

    [01:49:06.585] 

    And there’s a sense of it’s like feeling what you all four men and sort of trying to channel what they are, but also knowing a little bit about your fear of what what was the context in which they write that? What were they thinking? What were their books before that? And then it’s more it’s sort of getting the spirit of it. But then re interpreting that in what in in your experience, if that makes sense.

    [01:49:37.995] 

    There has to be a connection with your experience. Otherwise it makes no, it doesn’t resonate with you. It’s just words on a page. If you can look at it and question or it rings a bell in your experience in any part of your experience, then there’s a connection and it’s. As a result of that, it takes you along because you you can see what may come next or you can question it because you have a background. You have some.

    [01:50:15.965] 

    Some connection with it. And so when you say I like it or I don’t like it, I think that he didn’t commit this or this was not addressed or he got it wrong. It’s based on what you your your your the repertoire that you have, that is that’s that’s just related to the story. Mm hmm.

    [01:50:44.415] 

    Yeah. I’ve got a course in miracles and I’ve had that about 20 years. My goodness. I have a story from who’s that from David Hawkins. None of those miracles is allegedly channeled by Jesus or the spirit of Jesus and I in 20 years, I’ve never really been able to go for it. It’s brilliant. It’s like how articulate and whatever, but it’s just not able to get really like to fly with it because you are not at the stage yet.

    [01:51:29.115] 

    You know, we all have our minds state when we are and when we are, we will able to get for it. And, you know, I think also it’s really important. I don’t know if you ever have these 70 2010 model. The thing is, I’m basically 10 percent you’re taking the knowledge from the school. 20 percent by sharing the information between each other. So that percent basically told is the foreman like a school university book, whatever, so you can only just take 10 percent of the information from the 20 percent by shuttling between each other or somebody show you and 70 percent by move your ass and go and do it and practice it and go and do it and go and do it and go and do it.

    [01:52:23.915] 

    So find the meaning behind sweet for yourself. Make it tailored your shirt for yourself. Yeah. I learned by doing and tacit knowledge. Exactly. I can go and do it. Yeah I can. You know when I were initially I used to write a lot of stuff and I thought if you write this stuff down and then you really look at how people learn, like now what I’m trying to do more and more is more conversations. So that’s why the breakout range got smaller.

    [01:53:02.975] 

    So it’s more personal so that people have to have that interaction so that, yeah, there’s more engagement with it and more. Yeah, I think there’s a deep level learning. Yeah, people can complete their thoughts when they’re when there is more people you have. Yeah, yeah. It’s a sense of that. They take control and they they create and integrate the four. That’s right. For them rather than trying to control it. But anyway, that went that went very, very early and very long, actually.

    [01:53:42.315] 

    That was that was great. Thank you for that. Does better than the book. I listened to it again.

    [01:53:49.405] 

    I walked through the forest yesterday and I listened to it again. And my first lesson for me was that me, Bygrave and seven stories in that. And as I read it, I didn’t know if I was influenced by what you’d said, but there were certain examples that we so literalness I would listen to that too. Say, Yeah, but yeah, we’ve done it. I have a great week. Do you think ACSU.