Dating and Relationships Q&A

    Dating and relationships is often filled with questions and confusion. This episode was a chance to air those questions and get answers.

    Transcript

    Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. Tonight, there is a famous arch, but it's just open to questions in the breakout room, you discussing what questions individually might have. Sandra and Yanase Linda have really like kind of questions rather than went deeper on it. Like when we go for. Talk with people we actually looking for the Jin-Yi person who they are the to be go with the least what I need to, you know, rather than being prescriptive and deciding on a person that you're meeting via a set of criteria, that a checklist is to try to have an open mind and to enjoy the experience for the experience of what it is.

    And it does take some getting used to dropping that kind of that image that you have in your head. This is my preferred kind of person, and I'm going to be looking for all of these things rather than looking at the experience. So it's trying to find that balance between expectations that you have in your head that you have built up over time and actually enjoying an experience of meeting another human being. And what could evolve from that? The. So it's to learn to be in.

    Well, I hate to use the cliche in the moment, but I will use it in the moment. Yes. And actually actually focus and look at attributes of the person, you know, and and appreciate them, because we tend to forget that we are also on display and we are not all peacocks or.

    Janosz looks like a peacock.

    Oh, it looks rocking that red. OK, so group don't make me I shall indeed, and we were talking about how to better persons when you first meet them. I don't know. If anyone wants anything more on that one, yeah, it was a question I had, which was basically how do you fit him and what his character and intentions. We're also talking about how to how to communicate your intentions and how to find a person's intentions as well as dating.

    And we also had how to make your situation a reality about how to make your situation and who you are a reality to that person so that not be with you through a kind of what they would like, but they're not. What was that word again, a nine year old cycle of violence, rose tinted spectacles. Yeah, yeah, projecting. So instead of projecting what they would like to them to actually save you all, basically and. Yeah, can.

    So it was also Frankin and they were in the same group wasn't it, Jerry. Any other questions. And if you missed those were three some. It was some. I'm Sarah. And who may. Well first one victim. At what point do you have sex with the person. With the man or anybody person. Say hope it's a person. Well, you never know these days.

    Do you want to go off the Zemko?

    That's what's amazing. Tavish. It's possible to meet in Kopans now.

    Yeah, I just hour with, um. How do you protect yourself from false hopes as in like when say, from a female perspective, like if a man gives all these emojis and all these, all these like good personas towards you and then comes across when you meet him is a totally different person to what he is. He gives all these he says he's going to do this for you, do that for you, etc., etc. when you meet him, he's a completely different person altogether.

    And I basically said, well, yeah, that's why I like to do like video chats and things like that first before I meet some somebody, etc. So sort of like keep yourself safe, things like that. And and then I wasn't I wasn't. I'm the other one group or complexioned. I'm sorry to apologize. And she basically says where to start, you know, literally where to start going back to the dating scene. She said after a while and you start again, I say there's one that looks like you can look twice as in the rose-tinted spectacles and how do you protect yourself against idealising.

    So that's two two sides of the same coin, really, isn't it? That's why I idolize or whatever I did, I did like you. I'm not going to say idealise anymore because I'm struggling. Like I said, I start with that one. Okay, so let's get the dimensions of the problem, says Idealisation, whether they do it or whether you do X. So Sarah, it was you who said protect yourself. So protect yourself physically or emotionally.

    I'm more emotionally, I think, than anything.

    Okay, so in order to protect yourself, there has to be a danger. And in order for you to need to protect yourself, you have to be vulnerable to that danger. Okay, so I always like to look at what can you control, because if you're looking at what the natural thing, the big thing that people talk about in relationships is they want to change other people. It's always their partner. So with dating sites on fire or these kind of things, because there's a natural propensity that we want to change other people because changing over people means that we don't have to change.

    So now what you said, and this is the view that most people have, is that you need to protect yourself. And that means that. You're vulnerable to someone hurting, and I think you didn't exactly phrase it like that, but it was like, how do you get I think I'm going to paraphrase your question and let me know if I'm out of your mind. So I think your question is that when you meet someone like Singye, you have these high expectations and then you want to protect yourself against being hurt by that.

    Is that is that or is it something else?

    You know, some justice question, but I think that's the main gist of what was was asked here.

    OK, yeah, so this is a common one. I think it's really important that we recognize it us is our expectations. The U.S. set us up. So. The question I think we're looking at is how do we I think someone else. Said this, how do we die without. Getting ourselves all excited about it, like kind of membe lie down. I think that covers some of the other. Questions. And so do you like when you're dating, who gets excited, you're like you think someone's going to be.

    Fantastic. And then you actually make the. He's had the experience.

    Can you repeat that?

    So when you're talking to someone and you arrange to me and you think, oh yeah, this person and they've got this, they've got this, they got this, they're going to be fantastic. And then you meet them and they're like. Completely changes your your perception of the.

    Well, I have thought that. Hasn't completely changed, but, you know, it would be interesting for about two months messages, phone calls, and we met after two months, I don't know whether that was too long was because it kind of did really. And he wasn't really. The way he put himself across domestic and phone calls is a little bit disheartening.

    Yeah, yeah, I know my experience of online dating is. Often the people who seem the most promising, like some people, some people turn out much better than you suspect and some people. How much worse than you're expecting and. I said there's a natural. Inclination to get excited is a natural. I'd like to project this what we always do. So. So what do we do to. Limit that. Anyone have experience or insights?

    Is it the case that if you meet somebody online and you do the whole thing of talking to them back and forth for several weeks or months, that you're just creating a false fantasy in your head? In other words, wouldn't it be better to just meet the person in real life sooner rather than later? Yeah, I think the American people have these ongoing communications and messages that they create in a false sense of intimacy. And I don't actually know the person, but they think they know them.

    But all the while, they're just projecting a fantasy onto that person.

    Yeah, that's true. There's some research about. I think it is three weeks, like if you if you're talking for like 21 days before. Research shows that people start to idealize, I think we need to recognize that the human what we what we do is we fill in the gaps. And there's the the halo effect of where we think. Like, if we think someone's more attractive, we automatically assume they're much better at everything else, they're more much more intelligent, much more capable, much more reliable, much more honest and the same way psychologically, if we think someone is a better fit.

    We try and. Like, we build up this picture, we are inherently meaning making machines that we we try and make meaning where there is. And so. That the meaning that we make is based on the emotion that we feel, so when we're feeling excited, we make this wonderful vision. I always say I think it's more effective to die early and die just like I have a few days, pick one. See how it goes because. In knowing who.

    He was going to be right. Is only something you can find out from time and experience. And.

    I think one of the things that you alluded to earlier is that when you are talking to someone online or texting, that is a controlled situation. I can craft my sentence via text to make it sound absolutely wonderful. You feel as though I am the best writer. I say all the right things, all the nice emojis. And so I fulfill the need or I'm fulfilling a need in you. And it fits. And it so it feels right. And because there is no spontaneity, it's controlled.

    It is actually a crafted situation and not the real one. When you meet the person many times what your scene is, you know, it's just a spontaneous reaction to reaction to things that are being said or the situation. And then you say, but that's not. Who that was that I was talking to. Who is this because the mosque has now fallen off. There is no rehearsal. There is no erasing of the wrong words and put it in the right ones and searching for the right lyrics from whichever song and putting it into the sentence.

    All of those kinds of things is said right then and there, and they just totally fall apart on both.

    I think that's a really good, really good point is that there's a spectrum from initial profile and an initial message to right to 10, 20 years in a relationship, 10, 20 years into a relationship, there's nothing to be gained from. Pretending to be someone like the cost of pretending to be someone against the game is minimal. And aside from these odd people like, you know, like these people that have been I've got two families and I don't know about each other and they've got this I don't know I can't even comprehend how much effort and why some would go that.

    But aside from that, 10 years into a relationship, most people. The cost of pretending to be something else is too much for for what they're going to gain. So I think there's this spectrum of what, you know, most of how someone is like their unfiltered. And then there's the profile, the first message, which is very filtered and very. There's a high gain from pretending to be something else to like the messaging to the first day, to the first few days.

    So for me, I would say the line of where you get to start to see the real person is probably about six months to you because. Even. So like Sandra said in an issue, this is very filtered even on a day, even though they will come down to their social skills and their ability to be spontaneous, but they can still project this image. And I can project that image for. Three to six months. I mean, they say it's like in relationships with narcissists, they can hold like a mask up for about a year, about beyond the year is is really people can't and it depends how involved and how many different situations you're in.

    So I think really what we what we're battling here is. The not something in our natural psychology is to make up the story. So he gets excited about things and then gets disappointed if they don't really work out. Because I think the tell because I remember my mom was very much on the get excited. You'll just be upset and never build up excitement. And then there's other people that build up excitement. So who where would you put yourself on that scale from being really excited about the future, to not let yourself be excited, like playing it down?

    I get excited.

    But try and balance that with. Realism, like my listening to colleagues like technical, I call it managed expectations are used to get super excited about everything. But then I've I've managed to calm myself down now through meditation, etc. and. Yeah. Yeah, I sort of manage it now.

    That's I think I don't think. I don't think it necessarily matters because I used to listen to my mom a lot. You're never going to enjoy anything because if you're never going to let yourself get excited about it in case it doesn't happen. So I think there's the there's a mitigating factor is like how excited you let yourself be. But then it's about how quickly can you recover from an upset. So so I say one of my strengths is my ability to recover from from anything and find a story that still makes the future exciting.

    So. These two, it's about how imbalanced they are if you let yourself get really excited, but then you don't have a way of being able to pick yourself up when it goes wrong. Yeah, I would say, like emotional resilience for me is. Like. I learned when I was young, when something went, when something went wrong, I know that we need to feel bad. I would always just I was talking to someone and someone was talking to me about meditation.

    And I said out that really I'd rather read or think. And she said, well, what do you do when, you know, when you're really down? And like, I was just like my bad and just empty my mind and just thinking I can't really answer, were you meditating? But to me it was never that. To me it was I always knew that there was a way like and it just came from somewhere when you when you stop worrying.

    So. In in that very emotional resilience or the ability to pick yourself up after her, where would you rate yourself on a scale of one to 10? So the dimensions in thinking about Wanstead 10 would be like within a couple of hours, you can feel back up again. One would be it will take you weeks or months to pick yourself up.

    I'd say I was very good at that.

    I think it's the it's the magnitude of the issue that would decide how long it takes for you to bounce back. Yeah, but, yes, I. I think it's our ability to look at what the we in a sense, we have to get out of ourselves and look at the problem and look at what it is and resolve one way or the other, how to put it in its place. It doesn't overpower you. And my thing is never regret anything that you have done.

    In the past, that has not worked out for you, so I try not to go back, have regrets and sit and wallow in I should have done that. What I did this instead, it's what has happened. I've done it. And it's that's the result of it. And that's a new platform on which I'm building. So so I try not to regret anything that I have done. You could easily get into know me Mizoram kind of thing.

    I did the wrong thing on and live in this feeling of regret for the rest of your life, like you have not achieved what you ought to or had any better experiences than this one thing. No, I think it's you what you have. I think you have to have some discipline to be able to. Hold on to that. I I think it helps if you have good, good friends who encourage you rather than push you back down so that you wallow in self-pity, I prefer the port network.

    But when they do this, what do I find? For me, my resilience is awesome. That's really horrible. This happened to me twice.

    Your resilience goes where?

    Rock bottom. Oh, OK.

    OK. So when someone goes to you, what does that. What do you mean.

    I've looked now, I just feel it's their issue. It's happened to me twice, but the last guy did that to me on the one before that made me now feel now that I may just be picking the wrong guys, haven't really got the communication skills. That's why they do that, because they can't communicate just to them.

    But when it was when it affected you more, what did you make me?

    It hurt me, hurt me, but after a while, when I when I use my head rather than my heart, it reminded me that it really was that really was their problem, that unresolved issues. And I really thought about it. It's not me. It's fine. But first, you can start to blame yourself a bit.

    I think there's a tendency psychologically that we personalize everything so that we say it's about us where we really like you say, it's never really about you. It's about them. So. Yeah, that that's why it hurts is because we believe it's something to do with us and what people then generally think is. There's often an anxiety that relationships will never work. There's a belief that. There's something that makes you unlovable and these kind of things just pick up on that and.

    So people personalize, but it's really. About, you know, like you've had the whole thing of response, stimulus response. Something happens and people respond, and this is really what it's about. Is that something happens, we respond and really because of our programming and whatever's in our framework. So we're responding based on that, which isn't actually true. So is recognizing that there's a space in between the stimulus and the response, which is really the conclusion that you've come to that is you can like test.

    Is that really true? Because often why people guys do this because they feel they're not good enough and they're about to be found out. And it's lots of reasons and really. So I'm going to say this, but no one is almost no one. It doesn't make much difference. But I think this is something like a mantra that people might have is nothing real until six months or so because. Getting excited about someone. Is more of what we're doing in our head than they're actually giving us because we haven't seen them when they stretch, we don't know if we can trust them.

    We don't know if they're going to be violent. We don't know if they're. The person that you meet initially. Is the very best of them, but you don't know what they're hiding. It's not necessarily that they're even hiding anything. It's just that none of us are going to go on a first date and spell out every little thing about us. And one of the things that they're not telling you could be a deal breaker for you. So.

    It really is I think you can have the relationship you want, but not necessarily with a specific person and if you remain fixed with the relationship you want. And not only rich with this money, it has to be with anyone, but it means often people are like, oh yeah, I will to be this person and you to really know that person. There's something about attraction that makes us. Fixate on someone and that fixation. Is based on nothing more than.

    Lurks an idea. So, yeah, the more. We can put it into that gap between the stimulus and response that don't take it seriously until six months. That whole. Issue then becomes an important distinction you're making between the relationship and the person as it idealized the person and projects onto them. But look at the relationship where often someone. There's someone that you're attracted to and someone you think about and we talked about, was it Dorothy from accounts and Derrick from marketing?

    So there's someone who is like someone at work that you really like. There's someone. You can tell that you really like and you really like. It's like you really like the surface appearances like. Maybe it's a bit like a Rubik's cube. And you're seeing the red. You know, the red face and you really like the red face, but you might not like the blue face or the yellowface, and you're not going to see all aspects of the.

    Until and until enough time has passed and enough situations. So what we all really want is this comes back to the idea that connection is more important than a relationship. So what we really want from a relationship is connection. So rather than. Obsess about having the relationship focus on the connection. So. It's better. To have a great relationship. With anyone, a number of people tend to have a shitty relationship with this one person, and if you focus on this one person, what happens is like you close off all the other options and you say, oh, no, but he has nearly everything.

    He's got three out of five of the things on my list. And if it's just as if it's just that. And so people make sacrifices. People make compromises and. Only because they have this fantasy that they are the perfect person, then that this person will change and so they end up with that person. But five or 10 years later, the appeal of that person wears off. When the relationship is grating on them, when they don't feel respected, they don't feel loved, they don't feel appreciated.

    So it's much more important to hold to the standard of the relationship that you want and be much looser about who it's with.

    I just want to say something else about resilience. It just occurred to me that there are instances wherein we can actually turn a negative into a positive for ourselves. Sometimes we get criticized for a particular trait or whatever it may be, not necessarily physical, but a characteristic about ourselves. And the natural reaction is to sort of all or I'm deficient and it's not you know, I need to fix this. I need to change it. This is not good.

    Somebody less than and I need to fix it. But on the flip side, sometimes that very criticism, that actual characteristic is probably one of your strengths. You just need to know how to make it work for you and you believe it to be. A positive make it into a positive part of you, rather than thinking that it's something that is being, you know. OK, I have been told that I'm standoffish. And you know what have you, but I'm very friendly, but it my friendliness comes with certain, you know, conditions.

    And so until you get through those barriers, you don't see how friendly I am. So you will think that I'm standoffish, but it's a protective mechanism for me. And so I'm not going to embrace Tom, Dick and Harry to be Miss Popular, because that's not what that's a nice person. So you will have to think that I'm standoffishness until I get to know you and then I will embrace you. And it protects me from people who don't want to invest time to get to know me.

    That's how I look at it. In other words, I don't think that standoffish in a bad way is not a bad thing about me.

    Yeah, I think who we are is who we are, and it's more important to have awareness and acceptance. Because of weakness, physical strength, and our strengths are in our weakness, and it's just knowing who we are, where we are and in what context I think they are. I think there is another side of that in that sometimes a lot of people are feeling they're deficient and because they feel they're deficient and they feel that they're missing something. But there's also.

    The thing that this defensiveness as well, that. People who will not listen to feedback and the French say, oh, that's just fine, man, you are wonderful, when actually sometimes we could deal with the feedback. So I think the thing that I think there's two sides feeling deficient and being defensive and the bit that's above them is really awareness and acceptance, having awareness and acceptance. I think the big problem is when we think we are deficient, we think we're not good enough.

    And this plays into the whole thing. I said that most people are walking around feeling that they are unlovable and this is where dating and relationship advice people often feel I need to do this and pretend to be this. I need to do this because I'm not good enough and it's not good enough is just having the awareness of where where do you shine?

    But shouldn't you also learn how to impart that kind of information to someone else in, because I think people will accept information if it's done in a way that is not accusatory, it's not denigrating them. It's not making them feel less alone. As you're saying, you know, the defensive mechanism can come into play, but sometimes we feel put upon because people you feel like you're being attacked because of the way it's being said, the context within which it is being said.

    And you feel as though the only thing that you can do is to protect yourself. And so you react. In other words, neither party benefits from the exercise, but they could have if they had shifted the way the message and the response. Yeah. So I think we also have to learn how to rebrand not just on the receiving end, but we also given to because it's a two way street. So we always have to learn that language as well.

    Yeah, yeah, I think is I think it starts when we accept ourselves, then we're able to express it. OK. Do we think we've answered that question well enough about the idealisation from yourself? Is there anything more to that that we have that doesn't really that we not practical enough answer? OK, we move on to the other side of it. How do we stop other people idealizing us? Anyone have any insight to force?

    I was just going to say in my situation, I tend to find that people can do that quite a bit. They can. I don't know if it's unrealistic expectations, but they so I'm disabled and have been for a few years now. And I put that out there on my profile. I don't give a lot of it, but I give enough away so that they can figure and decide. And I know that filters out a lot of people. That's absolutely fine.

    But I think that when people start talking to me, I find that there's a connection with them often. I can read pretty quickly generally, but I think some of them can be they can be very warm and open to it seemingly at first and accepting of it. But it's really difficult because I come across my situation in the most realistic light I possibly can so that they can get an idea of it. I can get more of a rounded understanding of it and they can see if they can actually read it.

    I can handle that, whether they can deal with that and work with it, because it's quite a big thing for me personally, for anyone. But I find it really difficult for people to actually see it in a realistic light and not build a kind of fairy tale vision around it as such. And then all of a sudden it'll hit them and Amulya. And that's kind of like a repeated pattern for me. So I find that really quite difficult to deal with those patients.

    I would say. It's a natural thing that we idealize. I think at the beginning, the beginning of a relationship. People. I think commitment comes later. And. People can commit to an idea. So she will explain this, right? S.. What we do in indicting is a million people out there, large people and particularly men on dating sites or. Who will buy, who will buy to buy it, and it's just kind of a fishing.

    Sometimes men are. When am I being sexist? I'm not sure, but sometimes men are motivated for. The initial the initial choice. And. So it can be about the chase and the hunt and. So your your situation is specific, but if you look at the dynamics generally of a lot of women will be the same. Will be the same thing that men are all that interested in the beginning and then doused or disappear or they have other commitments or they.

    Are they for some other reason so. I think sometimes people can men particularly, who overpromise initially. So I think. It's I think most women would have a similar dynamic, that memo Professor Lock and then drop out. So. Emmanuel. I mean, obviously. I mean, we don't know the extent and. There is something I can live with, I love that and not but for some of those men, it might be a convenient excuse.

    As in, that's what they do to women and if if it. If you if that was in your situation, the excuse would be different. So some of it, I think, really, that you can't stop someone else from idealising. And I always think. It's a mistake to want too much commitment to early. No, no, you're looking for commitment, but. It's analogous to women who say, no hookups, I'm I'm looking for someone with a serious relationship, because inherent in that is the idea that.

    Because a man says he's serious about a relationship means he's going to be serious about you. So a lot of women are like, I'm only going to be with a man who is committed for a loving relationship. Well, I'm not going into a long relationship. I don't know. But this is what a lot of women are asking for. So. First of all, does that makes sense? Yes, Natalie. OK, so. I would say.

    In my opinion, I would. It strategically different, as in, I would die for fun, I would die to connect with fun, because I think the process of dating is first of all, you can it be fun then if you get along and you have fun together, then there's an emotional attachment develops. And then if that emotional attachment develops without too much friction, then it can go on to a deep relationship. So I think in tackling this issue.

    Too early is and it is great that you're being honest with people, but as you've noticed, it doesn't matter what we say to people, they whether they listen to it or not, you know, like there's so little of what you say that people will take in. And this is why, like, you need to have really little, like, soundbites, and that's the only thing someone will remember. So. I would, first of all, thank you personally, I would.

    Let go of any attachment. Because your disappointment or you like that pressure is coming from an attachment, so if you let go of any attachment. Lack of like lack of expectations. They for fun. Have fun with people when you have fun. Say, if it naturally goes to something deeper than it does, and then if it goes deeper. Then you have then it's an issue, then it's like something that can be tackled then because immediately dies.

    I'm like I'm like to even say this is kind of sexist and it's gross generalization, but in the early days, men are. It's like. For men like the sex part is more like the child in a cookie shop, and so it's more about like that is what they're thinking about anyhow. Yeah, big like the guy. But until that's out of the way and until someone really knows you. Any commitment? It is not going to be.

    True. Because the level of commitment you're talking about. I think there's only. Like, you'll have lots of states, you'll have lots of short relationships, but in our life, there's only a few real serious relationships and it's one it's having those few relationships there. The people that you need to have that discussion with, really the rest of them, they just don't go that far. Does that make sense? So I think. For you, it's about lack attachment.

    Hafun. And. Enjoy people, but it's like some people you're going to enjoy on a short term thing. Some people like some people who are going to have fun with some people you're going to get along with. But you don't know anyone and you don't know their level of commitment and they don't give you enough. But asking for too much commitment, too early. Is. There isn't enough of a bond.

    I'm sorry. I would just said it's premature. No suggestion, change in. Things on the profile from relationship to unsure. What open up a load of. And a whole load of prospects, so to speak.

    Possibly, but and it takes some of the pressure off and not not looking, not going to talk to them about being in a relationship and change my mindset as well about being in a relationship. And just going to date. Looking on the prospect of just dating, OK, let let's if we if we finish with Nikolsk question and then we're going to come to yours. So Michael, is is that how how does that. Feel makes sense. Yeah, yeah, it does make sense, right?

    Yeah, I think some of the things that you mentioned are possibly due to an extent I try not to overdo it with wanting commitment and attachment pretty soon. I think for me, it's kind of it's a little bit difficult in a way in that I sort of need people to and understand about my disability, you know, as much as I can, as soon as really to be able to spend time together and get to know each other so that they can get to know me, how I do what I do, etc.

    all my world. Yeah. Yeah. But I get what you're saying. And I think I think that's what I'm. And that's what my mind has been calling around to more recently anyway, enjoying enjoying the connection, enjoying the moment and getting to know people basically again and not take it personally.

    I think being honest and that will come out anyway.

    But yeah, no, I'm very, very much that way.

    I think not hiding anything. But I think the key thing is not asking anything like not that you're asking, but you say now, is this going to be there? Is this going on? Just letting it come out because in the same way. Because they're not going to know you, you know, like like if someone said, you know, someone say, I've got OCD and I'm going to alter my socks this week and I can't have anything messed messed up.

    Can you live with that new guy? Yeah, but. I don't know if that makes sense as an analogy, but some. People don't know until they're live there, so let them know it's an issue, but let them make the decision. But it's really. If you look at every great romance and I sign rom coms are they are the ideal model, but what really makes a romance is the barrier. You know, like Romeo and Juliet, where the families hated each other.

    There's always some obstacle. So. Like. Not it might not be difficult, but there are lots of analogies, issues, so it's not something that's blocking you off, but it can seem that way if you're if you if that's where your focus is. I mean, as in water, I'm sorry, sort of, yeah, because because it's on your mind, you're going to feel that's always the issue. It's not it may not always be OK.

    I get what you could. And I don't necessarily think it is a lot of feedback I get when I get back, but I get what you can. I get what you. Yeah, indeed. It's brought to the forefront of my attention.

    And I and I think one of the things is thing is you have to go through lots of people and there's lots of ups and downs, which is what makes it so difficult before. Is there any any other insights, comments for Nicole? OK, is that everything from. For you, yeah, there's not any other bits.

    No, that's cool.

    Yeah, okay. Right. Sarah Okay. So.

    Yeah, mine's pretty much similar because I've also got disabilities as well, so in. But mind, I don't put my name out there, I hold back on saying that. And so I've sort of got to know somebody or you have to actually. When it happened, but, yeah, that's what I intend on doing until I get to know somebody enough that they need to know about it. Unless something happens in the meantime, they sort of have another.

    And what's causing a flare up of A.N. then? You know, I might just say, well, I've got about head or something like that, and unless they really need to know.

    Yeah, I think whichever way I think you can you can say up front or you can tell people as it comes down to you, but the full extent and what it actually means, because you can tell anyone anything, but until they live it, they don't know what it's like. So. If something comes out over time. And it's also it can feel. OK, I know it could feel like. You're asking someone and that's going to make it harder and he's still there.

    But. A lot of women. So, like there are women that are super successful, we strong women control, have everything sorted and I really struggle to find men because. There's nothing left for them to look after, you know, I mean, there's nothing for them to so many men like the feeling of looking after someone. And so there is that sense of. Because what men really feel is to be a man. It's me that makes my woman happy.

    And if. And romantic comedy, that seems like, well, what can I give to this woman that can be an issue? OK. Yes, yeah, definitely like a lot of men who will not not be in a relationship where they won't be serious with a woman and mourn them because they say, well, I have what you like, I can't look coffee. OK, so so right, you're asking, Sarah, about how do you change it to.

    Not sure. I don't think it matters on that level. I think what matters is. I think it really just. Like commitment is something someone gives to you commitment if someone gives a gift to you when they feel it, but if you're trying to negotiate commitment before someone feels something, that's where it's an issue. So. I don't know how I said this, but in our heads we know ourself and. Some people, like build himself up and think like I'm worth it.

    They should give me an edge and some people are like, ha, like what we see as our problem, our insecurity can make us feel like we have to compensate. Where was I going with that?

    What's the difference? So what's the definition of commitment is investing in this time and energy into.

    Yeah, I think I think that is a scale, isn't there? Is that the commitment is like our commitment is to 20 minutes. Two hours. When you say, like when you proposed the commitment to get married, when you're in a relationship, the commitment is to be there. So I think there's a scale of commitment. And that's the point I was trying to make, is that. We can't ask for that level of commitment when we don't have I mean, if you think about the dimensions of commitment, it's about the level of feeling trust.

    The level of connection, the level of feeling and the level of trust that they have in you. So commitment is. On a on a scale. So what's the definition of commitment? Commitment is like a promise, isn't it? It is to fulfill a promise. And so the commitment on Thursday is the promise to turn up and to stick around for however long, the first is commitment. I think what most people turn is like when we decide to be exclusive, we're going to be in this relationship and I'm committed to you.

    You're committed to me. Anyone else going to.

    Fort's. Nicely described, it is what it looks to the commitment, it's like when somebody goes after first, they don't want to get married for her. Definitely it's not. Everybody will say you're stupid, but if you are seven years with somebody, that will be the question why it's actually not committed. So usually what he said, it's between the first week and between the seven years, we don't know the answer because each situation will be individual. And when you try to protect yourself, that's all about morally.

    Trogdon done with each person over your relations or about the time? May be more quicker, you can get to the commitment.

    But then also is a commitment, another way of saying a demonstration of your choice. So you're saying by committing to someone say, for example, in a marriage that you're, as you say, to fulfill a promise, but that promise is your choice because, you know, in terms of words, they say a promise is a comfort to a fool. So anyone could say anything, including you can get married. And obviously they can still run off with Stacy from the office.

    They that I'm making a promise to you. I know what I'm choosing you. It's a declaration of your choice. And then obviously they need to make in the words they need to have the integrity to follow those words of action.

    Yeah. Yes, I put a definition I looked at it's been dedicated to court, to me, commitment is. Yes, the promise and fulfilling that promise, fulfilling your promise. It's not very clearly defined word is a. And this one we always is.

    I think it's just simply what you see, and that's actually how you will act. There's so many people they want to be good, but generally they just can't do what they see, so what they think it's not matching with their actions because they believe they know themselves and they try to override their animal instinct. But they can't. They can't, because eventually when they get into dangerous situation, they will act. As David, as the animal inspectors will do.

    And. Yeah, I think it is when I'm thinking about it, commit and commit is to back your week is to dedicate your resources like whatever your time, your money, your attention to what you said. Because the promises you say you're going to direct and then the commitment is backing up with a resource.

    It's a bit like a contract in a sense, because there is a commitment, what not is the spirit of fulfilling the contract.

    Exactly. And an understanding that this is the other party party commits to party B, and one would expect that Part B is also undertaken to honor that commitment. The promise will accept the promise and that the two parties will work mutually to whatever it is that they are committed to. So in a sense, it's it's almost like a. A contract between the parties to. Whatever it is that they're that they want out of that relationship seems to for the benefit of the doubt.

    So the so the contract is really drawn up with the promise, with the words of the promise and the commitment is the like actually showing up, actually painting, actually delivering, whatever it is. They say that, you know, I think it's all about actions. Definitely. I think I was just looking at the word commitment and then he said something about dedicating resources or being devoted. And I looked up to dedicate resources and times. So I think it's definitely about go from that promise and those words to actually the action.

    So somebody can't say they be there to actually demonstrate with their actions in terms of how they invest their time, their energy, their money, their resources with their actual actions.

    Yeah. So what we are looking at is a graph of like this. I think there is definitely a scale of commitment to the scale of first time showing up for the second date when you meet you, Travis. Friends, family, that kind of commitment when whatever when they do something to being committed in that long term relationship. So what's on the other scale? So resources. If we look at a graph slide resources, what's the other three? And as a matter.

    Won't and will.

    But won't it's just completely different because that's like your urge who you know, it's it's I hate to say that word, but one thing, it's like something else control you. You actually just got the urge to do it. But if you stop for a minute, you actually realize, oh, actually, that's not what really I needed. So the need it's not always the right things, because I would love to have a million chocolate to swallow and zero calories for me, it's like everybody.

    But would you do as well if you know the consequence?

    You know what, Walt also does not necessarily mean action, it doesn't mean that it's an active it could be passive. I want yeah, but I do nothing. I don't make an effort. I don't try I don't show a way of getting and achieving the ones. So once can be an aspiration. And we can work on things that are not good for us also don't always get and yes, we can get I'm so so I mean, how do we differentiate between the bones and the actual need for those things that are more essential to our well-being, to ourselves, to what we consider to be.

    Essential to us.

    But remember, for that Santa, whenever you say for something, yes, you eventually have to save for something else. No. So that's the sacrifice. That's what you're paying for it. But quite often we not realizing we all the time paying the price, sometimes we paid in the past, sometimes in the future, but we always been and that's the consequence. But so many people, they just want somebody to do for them to not taking the.

    I would say that as possibilities, whatever they do, taking, they just not realizing by putting in somebody else's shoulder or their plate, it's actually cracking because it's overload.

    So you have the case of the gentleman who thinks that his love language is to give, right, he's always given wants to do wants to take care of, and then one day he realizes that he never receives anything because this person is just just sucks everything out of him and never gives him back anything in return. It's that's lopsided, isn't it? Maybe he needs to learn that he's good, he deserves something in return before he enters that kind of relationship where he's always given or just to say, no, you really realize who belongs to you if you actually got the power to say no.

    That is if you are asked. But some people will go to the extreme to think that that is what is required to keep the relationship. So they give without even being asked, you know, the man who was always bringing home the diamond necklace and the diamond earrings whenever he goes out and he cheats and he does whatever or he does or does doesn't because that for him is sufficient to keep the relationship you give and you give when you give. Some of the things may not mean much to the person who is receiving them because it's.

    As I always say, you can't you can't you can't hold up money and feel warmth, but that's make me feel like the person doesn't feel itself enough worthy to spend a time, quality time with the person. So it has to be that with the product. So actually the person is just not happy with themselves and it's instead bringing something else.

    The donation can also be some sometimes people, some people it is they don't want to give the time, they don't want to give the attention, but it's easier to give money.

    But in the early days of a romance, it can be very nice because, you know, you get the flowers and you get whatever and you get all of those things and it's well, he's so thoughtful. He's never, you know, the chocolates and so forth. But if after all of that, there is no deep conversation, no deep getting to know the person, no thing. Shouldn't the alarm bells ring? And shouldn't you at that point decide, OK, those things that you thought were really true?

    Examples are true. Examples of caring are really not the be all and end all of the relationship that you want. And of course, people looking obviously hoppity always, he's such a gentleman, he always brings you flowers. He deserves whatever. He never misses your birthday or whatever. But what about in between? Does he actually see you as a person? Does he know you?

    Who actually is does see the person, just like I said, might be just simply just didn't felt good enough, you know, because of the whatever he does and that sometimes it's make them that feeling or like simply what the past does for the children when they can spend time with them buying a present. So the same pattern. Exactly the same.

    So there'll never be a deep connection in that relationship, then it's because dematerialise person is and that's OK. Some people will believe it's petrolist and sometimes it's just sometimes because that's what they value and sometimes it's because they don't want to give the commitment. So it depends I mean, sometimes it's like we're like not feeling enough and feeling that you need to wake up and sometimes it's because you value materialism and sometimes it's just because it's easy. It's easier to give money than time and energy.

    My problem is with the mismatch. It's not what they are. It's the mismatch, because that means that one partner is not satisfied and one partner is being shortchanged. If it's the two parties are the same, then they're perfect together.

    Yeah. And Sarah, have we? We've gone off on a bit of a tangent, but so is there more to your question?

    No, that's fine. Yes, fine, thank you.

    OK, and so how to vet the character and intentions? So anyone have any thoughts on Counterbattery character intentions? We'll have to find that intention's that's really. She asked the same question, is not.

    I think personally, when when you're speaking to guys, I don't mean to generalize, just in my experience, I think that guys can often talk in code. So what they mean isn't necessarily what they're saying. So I think just reading between the lines going on your instinct and seeing if they're saying actually matches up with a period of time is a good way, a good indicator.

    So by intentions, you mean like whether they want sex or whether they want a long term relationship? Is this what we're talking think it was something to do with that? Yeah.

    Could the intentions be both?

    I think you can generally tell within the first couple of sentences whether that's true or no. With myself, you can anyway this. Well, I'd say within the first within the first day or so, I was talking to them, I can generally tell what their intentions are. How? You can have a little bit of banter about sex and things like that, but then it depends on whether it goes into sort of normal conversation or it goes or carries on.

    And then if it carries on, then obviously that's all that they want, but if it if it goes into a normal if I can if I can sort of sway them to normal conversation, then yeah, that's there's there is some sort of hope of talking into a normal relatively. And so you can meet up with them, talk them out of it. Really. I'm not sure if you're talking about I mean, I wouldn't put yourself in that situation.

    I know what my dad thinks about sex. I mean, it goes both ways. It goes both ways anyway. So I think I'll stop there or incriminate himself.

    I'm not sure there's one intention. Block the other.

    Which intention block in which one would say, watch me? I mean, the next block in the relationship.

    Yeah, because that is is that is he is one of the.

    Yeah. Don't get me wrong. You got it. Well, I'd like to have a good sex life in my relationship. Don't get me wrong. Hmm. That's that. It's healthy to have one. But I'd also like to have other things, other things in my relationship to. And I'd also like that I'd like to know that there's that person that I'm talking to is is going to have some other interest in myself. Yeah, well, you'll soon find out what to say.

    Yes. It's a good indicator of whether you're compatible. That might not be just like a toy. Yeah. Let's talk about Matsuzawa. Like a toy. Yeah. On that point, let's be honest, I if not, it's just the standard really isn't it. Otherwise you're not good enough to my own.

    Or when they ask you what do you do when you tell them and they go right back to what they were talking about because that's what they can manage, that's what they want. They are in charge of the conversation then because that they know that's what they teach us. Diplomacy has to be the charge. They have to know what they want to.

    That's how we grow up. We want to say. And men want sex. Yeah, but their life might be yeah. But men also like it when a woman strong, there's a strong woman as well, they can't handle it all older, they'll be able to handle that. You know, it's not the easiest thing for men to handle, but you can if you do it right. Oh, yeah. And that's that's a skill. But you develop again, though, down to Will and want, isn't it?

    Yes. And I think some people don't necessarily know. I think some people want a relationship, but maybe they're not ready for a relationship or they think they want it and that they probably don't even know themselves necessarily, but ask them to be direct.

    But then that comes back to this, to the dance, the ritual. There's certain things that you're expected to see and do. And you know that if you come out and say, well, I'm not looking for a relationship, excuse me, it's likely that the lady in question may say, then why should I be bothered with this? Because it's not you don't want a relationship. So what do you want? And that and that can end that relationship before it's even started.

    So how do we start a conversation wherein we can be honest, but at the same time we do not end things before it actually gets started by what we say? Excuse me? Because some things can actually turn people off. I mean, brutal honesty, it can can actually end everything before it even gets started.

    I think when I'm talking to people directly, I try and sort of show them that and they can be honest with me and not to have assumptions about what my opinion is going to be. I've got to say, you know, if they aren't just looking for sex. You know that they can actually be honest with me. I'm not necessarily judging and I don't necessarily know what my answer is going to be to that totally. So just to sort of show them that it is safe, to be honest, I mean, always going to get it.

    But I think you can sort of read between the lines as well.

    The only danger that I'm afraid of is well. Having meeting someone who thinks that they can change you, you know, you say so and so and so, but I will I can change you. Yes, I want to really like if I say I don't want a relationship or a serious relationship or I can get you I can get you into a committed relationship. So it's like a challenge. And then what, after you've won the challenge, then what?

    Are you bored, are you then going to leave because now you have conquered and you know, it brings up all kinds of things in your head.

    I think. Like, if someone if all they talk about is X, then that shows a lack of sensitivity, a lack of concern, a lack of really listening to your once. It's. I think. He, like you say, from how lucky that guy is and if. I think the thing is, I think someone else is does when do you have sex? Well, I think when. When you feel ready, when you want to, when the cost of if it doesn't be any more, that is not too great and.

    Risk factors and. Desire is like an equation, isn't it, and balances are. But how you because there's the talk and you can say that as a challenge. But it's really about. You have to use like you have to know your what you want, what the cost is like, like how important it is to you, like if you sleep with someone and doesn't become a new symbol because you could someone could have the greatest intentions of wanting to be in a relationship, wanting to be connected.

    But you could go like sleep with them and go on a diet and really not carry on next time or you find something out and it's going to fall apart anyway. So I think the real question is, is about is, like Janosz said, is like not wanting to feel like a toy, like something that used just for that. Isn't that. That's really, I think, about being clear on your boundaries, that you can chat, you can fly the.

    Where, you know. What you're comfortable with. And just really being clear on that. So then then then the issue is. There is a fear of getting into that situation where you want to and then you don't like. Where you feel you're going to get swept away and then regret it, is that kind of. D.C..

    I think as long as you keep your boundaries, then you'll be OK. Just keep on it literally. Sorry, just keep it on top of that, literally.

    Yeah. As in as in. Is that an issue of assertiveness or is it an issue of getting carried away in the moment and the boundaries changing?

    Yeah, it depends on what. It depends on what you set out in the first place to do it, isn't it? Did you have it in your mind that things might change? Is that moment or will you are you have you got it set in stone in your head? No, my boundaries are and I'm going to set Setto and. I'm going to stick to my boundaries.

    Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think yes, I think if I like it, if our boundaries change, we can't blame the other person for the boundaries changing because that's really about like we got in the car with our side and we only learn about them from how they look about their side. So. And then it becomes like Wystan regret, is it guilt, is it because, like there's this social programming or. Like, so what was the regret comes in the guilt and regrets coming in because you didn't know your own true worth?

    OK, so so what's it worth?

    The true worth is the fact that, you know, you're better than the. And you feel that you've let yourself down better the more.

    That you should you should have stuck to your boundaries and you feel them, that you've let yourself down.

    OK, so you will do the same. But your boundaries were not because you set the boundaries intellectually and then you're emotionally and feeling something. So there's a there's something out of balance in where your boundaries are and what you're feeling. I think one of the things that we all misunderstand is we're animals. We're we're just one one of the species. And then we try to hold these standards. So because the assumption behind that idea is that there's something wrong with having sex or something wrong with having like as in we need to know someone this much before we before it's right to have sex.

    Because the whole thing of because I'm worth more. It sounds like there's a feeling of being a price because my wife more. Because if it's one way, then this is really the model of sex we have. Because the model of sex was really happening there, if we really analyze the model of sex that you have is different from the feelings that you have and so often the model doesn't take into account. How we feel and so, for example, if there is two dogs or two dogs in the park, Winterich.

    Has one of the slows down, is one worth more than that?

    No, I get what you're saying. Yeah, if you're just going to get carried away when I said. You take over and it's nothing you can do better, it is that time, apart from the act of sex, what actually changes in you that would make you feel less than that is how I look at it. If I am me, with all of whatever it is that I think makes me who I am and I have sex. What of me is diminished, diminished by the act of having sex with somebody who is not my going to be my lifelong partner, because I think we are conditioned that there is a major and a minor and the man is the major all the time and the woman is the major.

    So minor. So she's the she's the one who feels that she's been used, is a toy, has been taken advantage of, etc.. You never hear those words applied to a man in a general conversation. But sometimes if you speak to a man, he will use some of those words because he can feel as though he has been used and abused and all the rest of it. The words that we use do so. I think from that, because maybe because we are not having honest conversations, we are not finding the common emotions and issues that both parties actually confront.

    And so we are going through a feeling that we might feel we are supposed to feel diminished because that's traditionally how it is, because it's the man who creates our sexuality. We are pristine and virginal until Mr. WhiteKnight comes and wraps up, wraps us up in his arms and takes us off and the flowers and we bloom and what have you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now what we have is a situation where we feed, where we know that we we have agency.

    We are complete human beings. And on that basis, we should feel equal. To men, and it's not necessarily OK, take out the social parts of it and the cultural bits about modesty and all of those things, I'm talking about how we get emotionally wrapped up with another person. We talk about equal partners. In every sense, but in many relationships when it comes to sex, the bedroom, the partnership then becomes sometimes one dominant, one one receptive or some sort of.

    A different dynamic to the rest of what goes on in the relationship. Why and why is it that we are resistant to to change? Because sometimes women are their own worst enemies? I think in that we denigrate each other because we use terms like Sliger and this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, about somebody who may have several partners or think of six more in terms of an activity that they enjoy and they go about it. I think we also have to look at ourselves in terms of what we think we're worth and that we are not diminished by actually having an enjoyable sexual experience with somebody.

    I think the issue is when we are finished with that experience, do we feel changed or do we think that that experience has added some form of commitment to the relationship that was not before? And I think those are the things that get tied up because, as we say, women associate sex with, you know, the ring and the dress and a committed relationship and so forth. And I think we need to learn to. Decouple those things.

    And also, there is a biochemical thing of women have more of an attachment from oxytocin to longer. Yeah, after sex.

    But that doesn't mean that's fine, but that doesn't mean that no, as Beyonce says, put a ring on it, you know. No, no, no, no, no, it's not it's not permanent. We want to cuddle and we want to sing. And it's cocooning and feeling really, really nice. But still, pragmatism should take over and say, OK, yeah, but this is not marriage. This is this is the marriage.

    There's something else I'd reframe as well is like worth more. And I would look at being worth more in terms of the relationship. I'm worth more than staying with someone who doesn't treat me right because I've had sex with them. I would. I'm worth more. Then feeling like I have to you, which happens, and I think one of the things that people have often people have very rigid ideas of sex, so. Which means that they commit someone quickly because they want to sleep with them and then because they're in a relationship, they feel that they settle for this.

    And for me, you're worth more than a bad relationship. And it's much more important how someone treats you over the long term rather than whether they're and you'll find out whether someone's committing to you or not, but you're not going to find that out for a long time. And. So I think sex is whenever you feel. Ready, and you feel like with whatever framework that you have. The. You feel like, hey, let.

    But sex is also a yardstick, another one of the yardsticks that you can use that used in assessing the relationship, because if somebody you have sex with somebody and that person is just all about themselves, you don't matter. You are just a convenient dresser, then how is that? And and and the first time you're supposed to be on your best behavior, right. I mean, this is the interview now.

    And what was the job?

    Well, this is the point. So it's clear that there's an open slate. It's what you make it and you are not making it. So clearly, there's no job description that is suitable at this point.

    So to my mind. Sex is no more or less than, you know, building up a set of criteria to assess the relationship. Looking at all facets of the relationship and if that doesn't work from the very beginning, that it doesn't work for you, that you're in trouble.

    I mean that to me, you cannot start a relationship with a bad sex life because it is only going to go downhill. End of story.

    We've got to be Frank Sinatra is the programs of the guiltiness and all that selflessness and everything. It's just the kind of where we want to reflect. But rather than to reflect, we're putting some kind of. Aksu actualisation behind, which is nonsense because think about that. You've got this problem now, you never experienced that before. So how do you are to actually challenge yourself or ask yourself you've wasn't good enough five minutes ago because you never faced that situation before.

    So how you can say, oh, I didn't do it very well? Well, you actually regretted what you actually tried to sing or I was guilty. It's that it's nonsense. Did you learn something from it? Great. Could you control it next time? Let's do something about if you can't forget about, just move on. Don't waste time, energy and think about that. Our values, if I put you to five pounds or whatever, not one of the teacher will sing in the school.

    It's worth five bucks for everybody for the same. Yes. If I do like that, everybody wanted Stelios. If I put it on the floor and I step on it, probably still everybody wanted a slap, so the value is still the same, but I mean the same. But we as the humans, so this one gets some earthiness, we're not anymore the same Y. Why does the question because we devaluate ourselves.

    Controlled, we are controlled as part of society, too, so that we can behave in certain ways because those norms keep us in our appropriate places. What we have is now the assertiveness of women who have come out from behind the curtain, who are saying to men, we are no longer passive. We want some of the same experiences as you do. We want to share this space. And it is for some very difficult because the traditional role of the male gives them the self-esteem and to have to carve out other characteristics to have the same sense of self-worth is probably new territory for many men.

    It's like women having had to cut and various ways of carving out our space in the corporate world, in the world of business. So we are both learning.

    Yes, it's about giving yourself permission to as well as. Yeah. Self permission to not wanting the permission from other people. And I think I feel like that we're leveling up with guys as well as such, it's not about I want to be equal to is is it should be with anyone else's get on with it. And if you it if you look at it as an as it is, then then you're more likely to just drive forward regardless and people are more likely to respect that you feel.

    And see the others.

    I think the dominant frame controls the interaction, so. If you go along with that, with that, with someone else's friend, then you've given up yours. Whereas like you say, if you just say no doesn't make sense because this is the way it is, then that's fine. So if you have two different frames, one of them has to change. Or one or both.

    But I think also both parties have to be confident in themselves enough to be able to give each other the space to allow them to be who they are.

    Yeah, I think all of this all of this is true. But all of this is aspirational. Because. The truth is that most of us can't live up to all of the time, and so it's recognizing that we're all going to fall short. We're all going to act sometimes like we're all worth more than we sometimes act and we all make mistakes. But none of them are fatal because the journey is about like just one decision does not make a relationship or break a relationship.

    It's. The collection and the consistency of what we do, what we say and what we decide.

    But there's a difference between knowing and not knowing that this is a situation and that you are aspiring to, and I think that is maybe like these sessions, to my mind, it's what it's doing for me. I am thinking through maybe things that I really never had thought through in a logical way. And put it into proper perspective, it's it's not about losing or being what should I say now, competing with anybody, but having a sense of self knowing how to modulate that that self in terms of negotiating with another person, because you're sharing a lot of things and you have to I mean, it's like negotiating a contract of any sort.

    There is give and take. There are some clauses which will break the deal and others that you can modify to. So nobody's completely satisfied, but it makes it livable for both of you. And also, you don't lose faith. There's respect except to accept the whole nine yards that we have gone through, but. If we don't have those conversations that allow us to understand these different aspects of what really goes into making you a complete person, but also make you understand what you need to have in your toolbox to negotiate a successful relationship.

    Then we are always playing catch up. We may find a partner who is already very versed in these matters and can probably help you to see and discuss and learn. But by and large, I think we are two parties many times just.

    Yeah, rummaging around to see if we can find a piece of gold or the diamond or something. Some of us are lucky and some of us are not.

    Yeah.

    Like I said, there's one more question where to start indicting Carmen, whose question is was.

    We talk about. It was a key. Was it cause it was, I remember to say your name now.

    Is she gone?

    Yeah, I think so.

    OK, it's it's a big question, is it relevant to anyone here?

    What was the question of how to start on biting or where to start? OK, just as a quick overview, would you start? Start a staff review, and I think this is one of the big problems people have is most people go to dating sites like dating sites or set up. The businesses that work within the existing framework and what that means is that they need to most people who go on dating sites are looking for this perfect, magical person who is going to say everything.

    And so people go with the idea that if they have their checklist right and they can get all the things ticked off their checklist, then everything will go perfectly. So dating sites let you search from high, from income, from looks from all of these different factors. So what most people do is they go on a site and they look at, oh, what do I need to say to get people's attention or what do I need society to get men to get women to message me?

    And then they start. They start chatting based on the attraction is. They like how they feel, the attraction is how. They project that the relationship is going to go, but the attraction that you feel for someone and how much fun you have with them initially. Is like the very top of the iceberg of who they are and how a relationship will develop, so most people have a great time the first couple of years because that's natural. It's easy.

    And then, like, the graph goes down. And five years in, people don't have no idea of how to change something. So, Beth, you asked earlier, like, what does that mean about commit to the relationship and not the person? So I think that way you should start is understanding yourself and knowing what you need to be satisfied in a relationship. So is understanding. What is the relationship need to look like? For you to be happy.

    nd years of recorded history,:

    Bilal, that's that's like a blink of an eye, Evolutionary said, biologically, we are built for caves, we're not built for the complex level of society that we have. And so emotionally, we're not prepared for the challenges we face. So where was a start? Okay, so. So is knowing what you want, knowing what you want from a relationship. And then. The problem we have in relationships is like on dating, is this so much choice and.

    So dating sites entice you with how much choice there is, and they give you ways of sorting it as if magically, you know, by dialing for these people. OK, these are the 20 people who are going to be my ideal and I'm going to have a perfectly happy relationship. So it's starting now and you don't really know who. Or how are you going to get the relationship that you want? So dating is a leap into the unknown.

    So the best way. Is at the deepest level. So when we look at biologically, we are this is where I kind of went off on a tangent, but biologically, we're not built for the society that we live in. So the problems that we have are because our society is imposed on our biology. So if you look at so we talked last week. Last week was the alpha males. We talked about the wolves and how the idea of alpha male was extrapolated from wolves that were in an unnatural situation that didn't naturally occur.

    And all of this myth has propagated from that flawed idea. So we are really humans in a zoo because everywhere we are constrained, we're limited. And this is why so many people go to work and hate the cubicle that they're in and feel trapped because we've been caged like our natural essence. That mentality that feels that like you have to tie someone to a cubicle and monitor them to make sure that they are productive and doing the work because they can't be trusted is the same mentality that drives relationships.

    And so people feel controlled. And that's why people feel unhappy in relationships, because we have these projects, this idea of what's going to make us happy. We have someone that's close enough, but the further along we get. The morale from our ideal and so we're trying to change someone's behavior and I keep changing, and so those levels of control that come into relationships and that's what makes the relationship part. So. We are like animals in a zoo and.

    On a dating site, what people are trying to do is try and pick out this perfect thing and put them into their life. And so that's where all the projection and the idealisation comes from, because you're trying to fit someone and make them bring them into your life. So the idea is that there's is a jigsaw and there's this piece. And if you can just find this piece of the jigsaw and make it fit, then they're going to you're going to be perfectly happy.

    But the reality is that you don't know what's going to make you happy. You don't know who's going to make you happy. But we're all scared to make that leap into the unknown and so. Really, we have to look at apology, apology is we need to connect, we can't win like we have this thing and people give up on relationships, but deep down, we still got this drive. We still need to feel that connection. So are.

    The natural way biologically natural is just to connect people with we just connect people and we find the level of connection we can connect.

    Sandra, I just give you an example of the in the animal kingdom, one of our closest cousins, bonobos, bonobo monkeys, they use sex as a tool for social cohesion. So they have sex multiple times a day. It is just we are going to quarrel. Let's get it on. And they go out and it's a quick thing and then they move on. But they're happy because of the hormones that it releases. So it keeps control of aggression.

    And so they cohabit in that way and it keeps the group together and the. And they get rid of a lot of their anxiety and aggression and anger and issues of who is the pecking order, whereas in chimpanzees and, you know, silverback in the gorilla world and stuff, you fight to the death and you tear each other apart. But of us have sex. And we are related to them, so we have sex, too, for various reasons.

    And that's one tool that wasn't in my mediation training, so we we hug and kiss instead of having sex just to meet, I, I say, oh, you know, no. So of course, we have layers of civility and of course, the whole issue of getting pregnant and all the rest of it. But nonetheless, as you're saying, Rob, I think we are essentially animals. And so underneath it we are reacting to a facade of, let's call it civilized behavior.

    But underneath the hormonal interactions, the neural pathways are still the same as the caveman who, you know, he goes out like you, bang, bang, bang on your head, pull you into the cave area or whatever. So it's just that we do it in a different order. We don't literally go head. But, you know, and I think that really talks to we have this surface layer. Where we put on, like first date, we present this image and then we've got this underlying layer of what we're really doing and what we really intend on.

    So. So, yeah, I think the more that we can connect, the more that we can be honest. And then really went into saw. From people who can be honest and people that we naturally connect because because our society has become so complex. If you look at office politics and all of these kind of things, it really comes about because we were in an unnatural, unnatural setting that we shouldn't be with so many people. And so what?

    That's just like Sandra said, there's competition. The competition is really a lack of awareness of how you stand out, because really, when you think about it, like if you go to the supermarket and there's all these different ranges, they're all slightly different and they appeal to different tastes. And so there's no one that's really the best one that's the best for you. And it's the same with people. But we're comparing each other on superficial levels because we don't have the awareness of where do we really stand out.

    So. Yeah, if if we connect to people and you just. Stop like having any expectations or any presents or asking any commitment of anyone and just connect to them as a human, because when you think about it, what do you really hate about dating? And it's mostly because people treat you transactionally. And then we treat transit, actually, because there's a lack of trust. There's a lack of trust because we fear being hurt. And when.

    So the dating sites. The default causes you to treat people transactionally, and this isn't like they just fit in in the ecosystem because that's how our ecosystem works. But if you can connect and you can treat the other person as human. And find the humanity in them. Someone respond some well and. It's connecting to the level like let that connection fall to the level that you naturally does, because some people aren't right for you. Some people aren't your tribe.

    Some people are. And when you can do that. Because there's a connection, so like people are actually badly on dating sites because there's no connection. And really, what? Because there's so much insecurity, people are asking for commitment before connection, you have to have the connection before anyone is going to come in. So then you connect and say, okay, so how do you connect practically on a on a dating site is really from like your profile, your profile to really give a snapshot of you.

    So if you look at like the Rubik's Cube, there's all these different things one little bit. So maybe two stories. People put a list of demands and like like, oh, as if like this thing is going to come. And the assumption is that we can only project six months or years later we can one little bit about you that they can connect to, that you can start a conversation. The conversation develops the connection. As you connect and send messages should be about connection, not like what, what are you looking for?

    None of that, because nobody can tell you the truth, because nobody's got any level of commitment, because there's no connection. Just connect what you're interested. Like pick out something in the profile. What are you interested in? You just want a natural conversation. And the problem is that we're lying on all these ideas of are much more these ideas of everyone's out for sex, everyone's out for money. Forget about those ideas. You're one person talking to another human.

    magine. As much as we can let:

    You can always hold your boundaries of what like be yourself in the relationship. Then you've got nothing to fear because there's it doesn't matter if this if it works out with this person or this person or not because there's more people. But you need to know that you can help yourself and you need to know you can go out and meet other people and you can persist in the relationship. Nothing that gives you. I think anyone else has any insights or thoughts on.

    Dating.

    I think that we need to we need to be very careful when we start conversations like on nine or on any of the dating sites and. To me, if you are being made to feel uncomfortable and you are being made to feel as though you have to do things outside of the norm to attract this person, keep their attention, then I think it's time to say goodbye and move on. I think we have to be careful that we don't say, OK, this is the one I'm going to put all of my energies onto this person because I like their profile.

    And I think that this is the one and it looks right and stuff. And I have become very experienced, almost expert at looking at putting in Google Pictures, into Google Images to find the. Yeah. The ones who have stolen those images and are being whatever. Right. Because I just don't trust. And so I think we should not just jump because we have to be in charge of ourselves. So yeah, we want to talk to people.

    But at the same time, we need to be aware, have our filters. And if people are saying things to us that are uncomfortable, I remember one gentleman said to me, well enough almost I'm paraphrasing, but it's almost like, OK, enough of the niceties. No, I. I want to get into a relationship and and are you up for it? And I said, no, I'm not up for this. It was nice talking to you.

    I'm going back. So it's that people tried to control you, tried to put you into situations where you then become uncomfortable. And to me that is not what you're looking for. So the control button, you have, the goodbye exit, whatever it is that you have, whichever app you have, you have that power to get rid of, to say goodbye and to end those kinds of. Because there are because it's a form of abuse. Yeah.

    It's if you. Often feel like being physically dragged and physically hurt the rest of it, if you are really strong, you really care. This is what I want. I won't settle for, like outside this. Then no one else can really hurt me.

    And it's not hard to do after a while, you become very clearheaded and you see the people who are just out to, you know, whatever, and you can separate them from the ones who are actually worth spending time to because I think 24 hours in a day, so many calories to expend on this thing. And therefore, I need to make it beneficial to me and must be worth the effort that I put in. I may not get a date, but at least I may have a couple of interesting conversations along the way.

    Nothing. Oh, sorry. It's about not being. Not feeling you need like letting what happens unfold, but being happy. Sounds a bit of a cliche that being happy in yourself as in. Content on your relationships, the relationship journey and not needing them relationship. And I'm going to have to go soon because to let. Revelant, anyone? Have any questions or anything that you want to share before we go?

    I think as long as you're happy in your own self and in your own relationship with yourself. I think you're going to be fine.

    Hmm, that's that's so true because so many people are looking for a relationship to patch up something that they feel is missing in them. And.

    You can't get things right yourself. I've done a lot of work on myself over the last couple of years and finding out who I am and what I am and whatever. And now Dr. Factor wants to find almost every day you never stop finding out who you are or learning or anything else like that. And. As you go on, I think you become stronger each day, and I think once you find that out, you can just continue your journey and it's so much easier to find.

    Often lost, if you get general, just say, and then I think the real fear of a relationship is. There's certain things you lose in being in a relationship, you lose freedom, you lose the ability to just please yourself is easy when you're on and say. The biggest risk is being in the wrong relationship. And that's really where you want to. Like, the atmosphere is really in the quality of the relationship, and it said to me, I think it's not really about you want enough of a person's commitment, you want to quantify.

    Qualify if they are. Someone you want to commit to. Because the commitment to the common question women always want is they want commitment, but often you really don't you don't want commitment from the wrong person because also because the other side of having someone's commitment is then you're committed. And commitment is implies that you're giving resources. That you could put elsewhere, so you need to make sure that it's. A commitment that's going to be, well, a relationship is going to be worth your commitment.

    OK, it's a cost and benefit situation. What does it cost you and what do you get back? Yeah, it's transactional and it's a bit like any negotiation or any cell phone. Is that when someone's feeling. Less valuable, they give themselves too easily and they they don't negotiate for the price that they're worth. OK, well, thank you, everyone, and. We'll I'll see you again. Soon ask. Coming up again. OK, have a good rest of the week and speak to.

    Thank you, Rob. Thank you. .